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Right. SI vs Sr is simply a check whether you will lose 50% spell damage before any other calculations are made. They felt they needed to have a system comparable to melees attack/defense to balance caster/melee is all. Spells always hit vs melee which can miss was unfair in their eyes, hence SI and SR were created. Cheers,

I agree, somewhat lol. Yes, these methods obviously have immense rewards, else people would not do them. However, if it were like s1, where say 2 servers only per difficulty, all the other qualms would mostly be erased. For the high level mobs to lower player, we simply would always ask where people were, and they would reply in kind. Here, people just join servers, say nothing, and run around as they please etc. It all comes down to the servers available in the end. Cheers,

I think really though, most enemies DO have SW like SR, more notably in later difficulties. You see, SI vs SR is not an increasing gain/loss scenario like damage/armor. It is like attack/defense for melee, in the sense, or 'disregard armor' for spells; if SI > SR damage is 'full' to then get resisted by armor etc. if SI < SR damage is '-50%' to then get resisted by armor etc. SI vs SR actually has nothing to do with damage like you think. It is if/else statements, not a scalar damage gain/reduction like armor etc. If you notice, in your tests you are missing the key element for analysis; What is the listed damage of the elfs fireball? like a 9 to 5 reduction is about the 50%. As you can see by your last test, raising SR vs SI will amount to the 'chance' to -50% much more often. It should also function like attack/defense in this regard, a check, and chance to occur. So even with low attack value a melee character still hits etc. However we know spells cannot 'miss' so this is why the change in -50% dmg. Where increasing SI will ensure your spells do full damage, but of course are still subject to things like armor etc. Cheers, No, its always a 100% chance to hit with variable damage(at least in my tests) Even with 3x the SR over spell intensity. If your not seeing numbers with a high level (100) toon and low toon (1) its probably because Sacred 2 doesn't display 0 damage. Did you test your conclusion or look in the code? My tests don't agree with your hypothesis. The wiki also says differently. Maybe Llama will chime in he seems to know a lot of information from the developers. I know its 100% chance to hit. Please, re-read my post I was in the same 'place' as llama too. Cheers,

Well, it depends how you look at it. With this character (the EP seraphim) I don't just 'run around opening chests' I play it normally like any other char, just with a focus on MF. So that means, boss killing, mapping, etc etc, with this as icing on top. Like my 'bosskiller' to me, does not just 'run bosses' As you say, such repetitive behavior gets quite stale. I play it too, like 'normal' grinding, mapping, etc, just focus on bosses. I never just run guardians, reset, guardians, reset. I would go insane. I run every boss in a server, some other things, etc etc. P.S. And yes, the seraphim was 'chosen' because its the class I play Cheers,

I think really though, most enemies DO have SW like SR, more notably in later difficulties. You see, SI vs SR is not an increasing gain/loss scenario like damage/armor. It is like attack/defense for melee, in the sense, or 'disregard armor' for spells; if SI > SR damage is 'full' to then get resisted by armor etc. if SI < SR damage is '-50%' to then get resisted by armor etc. SI vs SR actually has nothing to do with damage like you think. It is if/else statements, not a scalar damage gain/reduction like armor etc. If you notice, in your tests you are missing the key element for analysis; What is the listed damage of the elfs fireball? like a 9 to 5 reduction is about the 50%. As you can see by your last test, raising SR vs SI will amount to the 'chance' to -50% much more often. It should also function like attack/defense in this regard, a check, and chance to occur. So even with low attack value a melee character still hits etc. However we know spells cannot 'miss' so this is why the change in -50% dmg. Where increasing SI will ensure your spells do full damage, but of course are still subject to things like armor etc. Cheers,

This actually has nothing to do with how multiplayer works, more on how many servers there are. In s1, there were 2 servers per difficulty, and at anytime, about 10 or so servers available for private games. Everyone was simply forced to play together is all it was. Here, not so much. I do agree with you though, everyone here is 'out for themselves' in a sense. Not in a meaning like they don't like each other, that's not the problem; Things were not equal in the first either, but we still all played together, because the alternative was don't play. There were no other servers. Like here, everyone wants to run the same 4-5 things, and there are enough servers to sustain them simply leaving and making their own game if they don't like what they are dealt. In s1, I remember there was always a big rush to be the first in a server, so that you could score the ghost cave, or orc cave. If they were taken when you joined, you actually had to WAIT! I remember so many people asking 'ghost cave free?' basically waiting in line! here, this is a typical server; player b joins. 'Guardians alive?' player a 'no' player b 'cursed forest free?/dev area free?' 'no' player b has left the game. Really, I agree with you guys, but the player base does it to itself. Everyone seems to be out for themselves, and simply leave games if their favorite area, run etc is taken or done. This wasn't an issue in s1, because again, you had nowhere else to go. You stayed and played, or you didn't play. You also couldn't do exploitive like things, like run areas 1,2,3 and reset over and over and over to quickly amass items, and massive xp, as again, no servers for this. Like the cursed forest 'runs' etc, not possible. You had to make do. So in conclusion, I think the remedy would be limit servers like s1. Perhaps 5 per difficulty this time. Cheers, EDIT* It works just fine. I will explain in other thread.

I will try to have a look tonight to check the code if I can to help. Cheers,

When all else fails, there is health. I don't know how many times I gotta say it lol. HP is the last and most important line of defense. Always has been, always will be (unless they change how action rpg's are made dramatically). Cheers,

Spell intensity and resistance are supposed to work like attack/defense for melee. Only with very high spell resistance is there a chance to negate roughly 50% of spell damage. I would run your test again, not based on damage, but on 'hits'. With a very high spell resistance, does the fireball still always 'hit' the sw? Again, from what we were told, spell resistance and intensity are attack and defense for spells. Chance to successfully hit, not damage at all for the most. Cheers,

Ok here goes; -Detremental Effects: Reduces the TIME of impediments, NOT their power. It affects ALL afflictions, like stun, root, slow, etc. It will NOT reduce their impact, ONLY their duration. I.e. 100% -Detremental Effects = 100% stun immunity in a sense, because as soon as you would be stunned, you would recover. -It is IMPOSSIBLE to gain 100% - Detremental Effects. Damage Over Time: Is actually 'resistance' in the games function calls. It is not considered armor, but it is resistance. We know its effects, it lowers the damage of any attack that does additional damage, with 'ticks' etc. An example of a non fundamental view is a boss dragons breath. It is 'damage over time' and increasing this value will lower the damage. NOTE: A HIGH - Detremental effects will lower the duration of damage over time, resulting in LESS 'ticks'. With a skill like spell resistance mastered, and at high skill value, it is possible to have only one 'tick' from damage over time effects. -damage over time ONLY controls the DAMAGE DONE by these attacks. Spell Resistance WILL lower the IMPACT of spell DAMAGE. It works like attack/defense for melee. If an opponents or player characters spell INTENSITY < opponents RESISTANCE, it will knock off around 50% of the spells damage before ANY other checks to armor, mitigation, etc are made. It also if the values are in high opposition (high spell resistance to very low spell intensity) will make spells miss outright. Lastly, It is IMPOSSIBLE to have any character 'truly' a 'god' except a melee shadow warrior with shadow viel. You can try all you want, but they can only attain 'demi god'. The SW only attains true god, because nothing attacks you. It is impossible with any build, and any amount of stacking defenses to omit all damage. SW only gets this because he omits all damage via nothing attacking. The closest a seraphim can come is as follows; 3 Aspects. Skills required; Exalted Focus Rev Tech Focus Celestial Lore Celestial Focus Warding Energy Lore Constitution Concentration The logic; Exalted for battle stance buff modded with silver evade, gold reflect CC. Rev tech & Warding Lore for shield buff and divine protection. Buff modded reflect projectiles, reflect magic, block. Celestial Lore & Focus for Hallowed restoration modded hp regen, remove damage over time (which it's not, its 100% remove root) and - det effects. Constitution for more hp, mainly for synergy with vitality and hp regen at mastery. Concentration for 2 buffs. You would also want, but not needed for survival; Tactics, Combat Discipline, Armor Lore, and more, but no skills left. The play; In a combo you have hallowed restoration. This will provide incredibly high hp regen, as well as stacking -detremental effects. A level 30 hallowed with the gold mod will stack in 2 casts to about -40%, so it's VERY powerful. It also insta heals. you can maintain 2 casts full-time (level 30 spell with celestial lore will also give around 700 hp/sec regen) with it in a combo. -Celestial Lore is a MUST for this spells hp regen power and healing. If you only take the focus, this will NOT work. The shield buff will omit a lot of damage at higher levels, so that hallowed + this mitigation ensure nothing will ever kill you. Battle stance + Pillar + baneful smite (both spells modded properly as debuffs, - attack values) can bring enemies to a 0% hit chance. I.e. for mobs, a pillar with battle stance on and slight evade will net you about a 2-3% chance to be hit. For bosses, use baneful, and similar. These steps with the celestial set for the LL%, mitigation, etc are about as beefy as a seraphim can possibly get. It is not possible to exceed this build with seraphim in survival godliness. This I promise you. You are for all intents immortal/god, but you still can take damage. Not that the damage will ever threaten you, but gods don't take ANY damage. Drawbacks are; No weapon lore, must rely soley on dashing alacrity for attack/cast speed, and you must mod it exactly to do this. No options on skills. It pretty much takes them all. In truth, I would suggest strongly either go the shield/divine route with a LL% weapon style like pole arms, or the hallowed restoration/celestial set route. Either or will provide as much an immortal state as you need for the game, and allow more freedom in skills. IF you truly want a GOD, as in a char that takes no damage whatsoever, that is only the shadow viel shadow warrior. Even 100% mitigation builds take damage from certain attacks, but this SW build does not. The only thing that can damage it are reflections to either magic or melee, whichever style you take it. Note, that melee reflection can be removed with 2 pieces having -opponents chance to reflect = 100% and therefore, true 'god'. Cheers, EDIT* The traps are indeed spells and can be blocked/reflected. 'Block/Reflect Combat Arts' is the ticket. Note, you will need the values HIGH. Also lastly, yess opponents chance to wound/weaken/burn/poison will remove their chance to even proc these effects, however NOTE; They like a player character with 'damage lore skill' can EXCEED 100% chance to proc these, so -100% does NOT == no procs.

Or even community patch, more bugs fixed, more sets, quests, etc! Well, for me this is impossible. I play closed net HC, so the CM patch doesn't exist in my world :/

I think if this is the origional unpatched version of the game, with a high trading skill you can just buy as many set items as you want, as there was a bug with trading that allowed players to shop set items... As well uniques had a bug where they could be 'randomly generated' instead of rare (yellow) items. So, can't be that hard Get the patches. Not only does it upgrade the game, it adds new bosses and content (the griffon is one of about 10+ mini-bosses that were introduced) as well as NEW uniques, set items, etc. Like the mini bosses like griffon, only drop MINI sets, and the main quest bosses, dragons etc drop the aspect sets. Best thing yet, get the expansion as well. It rebalanced the game to be proper, added yet even more uniques, sets, etc, new areas, new class with dragon mage, etc. Cheers,

You're the best! I knew it was near there somewhere, it's why I didn't bother to 'map' it and make a point of it, I thought, ah close enough, I'll find it again no problem... lol. Please though, what classes were you? and what class started the server? For instance, with my seraphim starting a server, the two normal class quest people don't appear? Thanks m8.

Hey guys, Okay, So in the dev area in the swamp I know exactly where the following are; 1. The line of quest ladies. 2. The seraphim in green armor who gives the 'hunting fevor' quest. 3. The class quest guy that unlocks the SW's 'Tyranny of the Condemned' legendary. 4. The seraphim that has a class quest icon near him, that apparently does nothing. 5. The 3 champion 'CID' seraphim. 6. The mount shop. However, one day running through here, I stumbled upon another seraphim, that I don't think was marked on the map. It was dressed like the other class quest seraphim, in basic starter seraphim clothes. It had a WHITE question mark over it. When I tried to talk to it with my SW, it said 'wrong character class/deity for this quest' I have been combing this place now for days, trying to refind this seraphim, to see if it unlocks another class quest like the one for SW, but I CAN'T FIND THE DARN THING AGAIN! Please, if anyone knows where this hidden one is, please, lol, it's driving me crazy! Thanks, EDIT* forgot to add, that when I clicked it, this one also spoke. It gave the lines like quest givers do when they are talking to another member of a party.

Welp, you know my feelings on the 'worth' of most of the legendaries etc, so if you get me either of the two that pass, (Kira shield/Second Ring) around the same level niob, it's all yours lol. It went in the same area the 2h unique axes did....

Last night was a good night. Got some nice unique items, Tinworas curse level 160 Dragonslayer x2 the Gold Bringer 2h axe etc etc, There was more, but I can't remember them all. Main drop was the Signet of Thunder legendary, level 160. Cheers,

Awwww man that sucks Let me know if you need anything m8. You can have whatever I got.

It should be reasonably simple to get the soft points at such high levels. My smith, current level 130, has 75 points in smith. With his suit on, his skill is 230. That is a gain of 155 points. The 'suit' consists of simple items kept with +skills (I.e. the set torso with all skills) and rares with +blacksmith. Therefore, I wouldn't worry about needing the skills at all, more so the looooooooooooooong road of levels ahead Cheers,

Hi, Please read my guide written here: http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=16846 I believe it is exactly what you are looking for. Cheers,

Ha, you already know thats for sure We gotta set up some full party runs for those chests, I'll bring the EP seraphim to open the boxes As for EP on console, no idea. Never played the console. I would imagine it works, but drops are a lot diff. I've heard. They fine tuned them in the addon, so hopefully someone who has played both versions can better answer.

The other thing to consider, Is perhaps it works in reverse; That MF doesn't affect drop rate at all, but more so the quality, or item 'tier' items are pulle from. This would directly relate to my experiences, now that I think about it more. Cheers,

Well I'm sure someone will come and disagree, I am going to say; No it does not in any experience I have had. Like MF forged into gear, etc, you just gain the static % value that comes with said level of skill/item/etc. However, raising EP will of course increase the values of socket and worn items with the EP MF variable. Now, trading works by comparing character level with item levels, and item tiers, of which a max is set, so the player cannot purchase sets/unique/etc. Trading skill affects two portions of this equation; tier and chance. The chance is listed in the skill, and the 'quality' portion of the skill could be defining the 'tier' that is selected, compared to character level. I.e. char level 20. Trade is 40. Say it gives +20% quality, 20% chance. The chance would affect the actual appearance of better items, while the 20% quality would be compared against character level to determine what tier they are pulled from. Drops work off of a modifier on the drop variable. I am fairly sure THIS is where survival bonus comes in, as it would be the 'level/tier' modifier, but not the chance. Or, it is probably based on more, like the 'dangerclass' of enemies, etc, where the opponent fought determines the tiers/tables drops come from, and MF again simply affects the drop chance, by reducing the pool/selection range of lower tier items. I.e. Say pool is 1000. white items are 990. legendaries are 10. mf is 20%. Thus, reduce 990 by 20% = 792. You now have a higher chance of a legendary. Cheers,

Why not build the characters in closed HC, our home, and just export to LAN for PvP? Anyway, again there are so many elements that can be easily abused in Sacred PvP. Another example; 2 move combo; Seraphim. Hallowed Restoration modded - regen, cooldown, -det effects (or team if it is team PvP) Assailing somersault modded - cooldown, damage, stun. Blast them up insanely high. Socket all attack mods/RpH. Every slot. Commence stunlock immortality. Not fun for others. SW can also do this, but must limit move set. NO frenzied rampage! Combo: Belligerent Vault modded - regen, -defense, stun. Scything Sweep modded - damage, stun, rage. Blast them up, socket all attack mods/RpH every slot. Even worse stunlock, as both moves will stun. Scything is an Area of Effect mob type CA, but for this purpose is just to add to the stun lock. At such low char lvls, stun defense is almost inpossible to attain sufficiently, therefore no matter how long it takes, you will win. the other player will just have the misfortune of having to wait to die. I would be interested in PvP sure gogo, but not at such low lvls. I would much prefer level 75, so that characters can have at least 1 mastery, and are able to have proper defenses. All % value mods may well be tossed at low lvls, as flat values provide so much more at sub level 50. This includes the majority of player buffs, etc as they dont have time to 'grow' Best thing to do for such low lvls is disalow any muling etc, or SB training etc, so that damage can be done properly. As someone stated already, enough damage to kill a player at these lvls is almost impossible to attain. Now just imagine one of the chars I previously mentioned, with healing spells regening more hp than they even have also... Cheers,

At such low levels, the best options are; Dryads healing spell. Seraphim healing spell. Reason? you can blast them to such high levels that they regen more hp than you even have, but this would not be good for long term leveling. That is not the goal here though, so should be ok. Regardless, this will basically make the character immortal, as damage from another level 20 character is paltry to the power of these spells. Mod the seraphim one for party, and bobs your uncle, you will win hands down, as well, can't really kill it at such low lvls. The damage just isn't there yet. Vieled shadow warrior with guidon modded for healing is another way for the same goal, and may work almost as well as seraphim too, as the attack/defense it would grant would also be incredible. I would say build for total defense at such low levels, as damage just won't be that important for low level duels. Add in only a few defenses, as most also won't be worth anything at such low lvls either. Pacifism, toughness, constitution. Skip all the rest for the most, as the % based skills etc won't come into power until much later. Depends too if you want to allow such Combat Arts. On a side note, why not export from closed HC high level toons? This would allow for damage builds etc to be used. As really, you cannot out damage things like these at low lvls, if they just blast up the Combat Arts. A level ~30 hallowed resoration can instant heal approx 2-3k hp each cast, and regen somwhere btwn 200-400 hp a second, depending on celestial lore. You will not pound through that at level 20 with pretty much any offensive mod you can think of. Cheers,

I actually have a seraphim built to exactly this purpose.... It's level 75, EP right at mastery (just got it there). Drops from 'chest' runs are definitely noticeable. Unique items are frequent, even at this level. Gear MF is around 80%, EP 55%~ish, and master bonus 285%~ish. I will document it, once I am back on this toon in the rotation. Cheers,