ka243

Thank you for your reply. I also hate healing potions. But I wonder if the amount of extra HP regen from this mod is negligable compared to your overall HP regen without this mod at high levels and also compared to the extra CA regen at high levels it offers or not (see my last post). I would be curious what is your health regen with the mod and without the mod (hard to test) or what is your health regen with the buff or without the buff? I should specify that I am playing a caster.

Thanks for your input and I understand your reasoning on this choice. Of course its better to outmaneuver the mobs but if you manuver it takes more time. You can kill faster if you have to maneuver less, you can't maneuver if you are stunned, it is harder to do in contained areas, and mobs move faster at higher difficulty levels. Concerning fiery Ardor/Pyro expertise: The question is whether the damage or the regen time would be of greater benefit in general. Of course you can get damage from other places but you can also get regen from other places. I am trying to determine which mod gives the most benefit. Concerning Grand Invigoration, I think that the CA regen time mod is better based on my calculations above but I wonder if the numbers from the wiki are correct. For example, according to my calculations, the silver regen mod should give 7% + 0,7% per ca level regen. At level 127, this should give an additional 7%+139*0,7%=95.9%. However, in one of your posts Katran, you say you have chosen this mod and at CA level 127, you have only 70% regen time reduction from this buff overall. So the wiki appears to be wrong on this point.

Does the game check first if you sucessfully reflect or sucessfully block? If it checks for a sucessful block first, you might be decreasing your damage output by choosing shield lore if you have a high chance to reflect. What do you think about this?

Thanks zonc, that's good to know. What would you pick among the CA mods listed?

As we are limited in the number of runes we can eat for ice and blood (200 maximum before the CA level resets to 0), certain mods might be good to change. Example: Fiery ardor adds damage to all fire CAs, maybe its better than the -regen for ice & blood because the number of runes you can read is capped, so you will only be able to pump your CA levels so high... I would love to get your opinion on this thread by the way where I discuss CA mods for elves: http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=12401

Have you done any more research on this or gotten any interesting results from your own character? I opened a topic to discuss several fire mods and would like to get your opinion as well: http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=12401

Just one note: on the GI silver mod, the wiki says it gives a flat hp increase amount, not a percentage. The damage mods seem to be much more popular than the regen mods on the SIF in many threads. I opened a thread for discussing this and some other mods here and would welcome input: http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=12401

When I say CA, I mean combat art. For example, shield lore gives "chance to block combat art". I think the healing mod on grand invigoration gives a flat amount of extra HP regen (regardless of your hp amount and regardless of your vitality or level in constitution or delphic arcania lore). So, if the numbers from the wiki are correct, for example at CA level 150, this silver mod should give about 151.5 HP/Sec (=1hp/sec + 1.5hp/sec/CA level). or an additional -105.7% combat art regen time (=7% + 0.7% per CA Level). If this is the case It seems that the HP regen mod would be better at the beginning of the game, but 151.5 hp/sec would represent a very low overall increase in your hp regen at the end of the game, so the regen mod would be better at the end of the game. Is this analysis valid or is the wiki incorrect about the numbers? As the game is generally easier at lower levels than higher levels, I want to pick the mods that will benefit your character most at higher levels. EDIT: Added some info about CA stats with certain mods chosen from a toon with no gear on. Would like to see stats from others who chose the other mods.

As always, thank you for participating in the discussion. So in your opinion, the best choices are which ones? INCANDESCENT SKIN: Silver * Revenge - Chance to reflect close combat damage. (30% + 2% per CA level chance) - According to you, this is the better choice but you recommend also getting ice skin because the close combat reflect of fire skin does NOT work against enemy CAs, it ONLY works versus "normal" attacks? I don't plan on getting ice focus but that's interesting to know. Gold: Which one/why? * Arrant Pyromancer Expertise - Further decreases the regeneration time for the Arrant Pyromancer aspect. (20% + 1% per CA level decrease) * Fiery Ardor - Additionally increases fire damage. (50% + 2% per CA level increase) BLAZING TEMPEST: Which one/why? * Spell Flow - Significantly decreases the regeneration time of Blazing Tempest. (33.3% decrease) * Conflagration - Sets targets ablaze. (41.7% increase in burning damage) GRAND INVIGORATION: Which one/why? * Replenish - Further decreases the regeneration time of all spells. (7% + 0.7% per CA level decrease) * Life Energy - Additionally increases the hitpoint regeneration rate. (1.5hp/sec + 1hp/sec per CA level) Thank you in advance to anyone else who could share an opinion also.

Thanks for your input. You mention CA reflection... Does the revenge mod for fire skin do that or does it only reflect "normal" melee attacks? What are your opinions on the mods to pick among the CAs and choices above? This is the main point of the topic. I put my current build also for information.

You can't convert cheaply, but you can convert. Out class is 1500, in class (4:1) is 500. Does that mean that eating niob runes somehow increases CA level more than eating bronze runes? That would seem odd...

I am having a very difficult time choosing the mods for my pyromancer elf but this discussion would also apply to an ice elf for the grand invigoration question or a Magic coup elf that wants to use inc skin as a second buff + meteor swarm to kill bosses. A lot of the mods propose to choose between more survivability or lower regen /// OR//// More damage or lower regen. What is your perspective on these mods? INCANDESCENT SKIN: Silver * Energy Focus - Decreases the regeneration time of the aspect Arrant Pyromancer. (20% + 1% per CA level decrease) * Revenge - Chance to reflect close combat damage. (30% + 2% per CA level chance) Gold * Arrant Pyromancer Expertise - Further decreases the regeneration time for the Arrant Pyromancer aspect. (20% + 1% per CA level decrease) * Fiery Ardor - Additionally increases fire damage. (50% + 2% per CA level increase) BLAZING TEMPEST: * Spell Flow - Significantly decreases the regeneration time of Blazing Tempest. (33.3% decrease) * Conflagration - Sets targets ablaze. (41.7% increase in burning damage) GRAND INVIGORATION: Silver: * Replenish - Further decreases the regeneration time of all spells. (7% + 0.7% per CA level decrease) * Life Energy - Additionally increases the hitpoint regeneration rate. (1.5hp/sec + 1hp/sec per CA level) My leanings are towards Revenge because not much else gives reflect and 30% >20%), fiery ardor because (50% > 20%) and a lot of people on SIF said that if we say your damage is D and your regen is R, and you choose Pyromancer Expertise, to get your damage up to what it would have been with fiery ardor, you would have to eat a quantity of runes that would make your regen higher than its initial level R. The same logic was applied to temest and conflagration/spell flow. For grand invigoration, I find my high elf to be squishy so the extra HP regen seems it would really help but these 2 seem much harder to compare than the 2 above. But if I make all these choices, that would mean I would have none of the regen modifiers which is maybe a mistake. What do you think? EDIT: Note about Katran's Pyro Regen time with no equipment and both regen mods chosen on IS and the regen mod chosen on GI: Not sure what character level this was measured at which would make a difference. Incandescent Skin 137lv 49.3% + 86.1% - Grand Invigoration 127lv 70% - Fire Demon 130lv 43% + Links to pics from spunky's character having chosen the healing mod on grand invigoration and fiery ardor on inc skin (note this character has delphic arcania lore): http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii424/S..._2009/Buffs.png http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/I.....;/AttackCAs.png http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/I...llsAttribs.png http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/I...2009/Bonus.png http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/I...09/Diverse.png Would like to see data like this from others with other mods chosen... END OF EDIT. ------------------------------------------ Here is some information on my current build. My build is 50/50 Vitality and Stamina with the following skills so far: Pyro Lore Pyro Focus Armor Delphic Focus Concentration Ancient Magic Planning to get: Bargaining or Delphic Lore Shield Lore or Delphic Lore Constitution or Delphic Lore Combat Discipline or Delphic Lore Opinions on the skills are welcome too. If I take delphic lore, the hp regen modifier would probably not be neede but I'm not sure that's a good choice either. Main CA : Tempest, Fireball or Meteor for walkable water areas Boss Killer: Meteor Mods Chosen so far: Tempest: Damage, Extra Burn, Crit Meteor: Stun, Extra meteors (think the other choice would have been better since not all meteors hit reg mobs but the ones that do would do more damage with the other mod), Undecided Grand Invigoration: Pyromancer Expertise, Undecided, Undecided Other CAs: Teleport+Expel magic combo currently unmodded, If I get delphic lore: cobalt strike as boss debuffer If I get both combat Discipline and Delphic lore: Boss combo: Teleport, Cobalt Strike modded as debuffer, Expell Magic, Meteor swarm Mount: Pyro Lizard

Now that seraphim can get ancient magic, this build could benefit from it. But what would you leave out?

So... How would you change this to adapt for ice and blood? (runs and hides)

I'm 100% sure this is a bug... If it were not a bug it would have been listed in the change notes/patch notes which very clearly it was not.

Testa seems to shoot more when you hit with weapons. I took her for the high elf because she had been good with all my other characters but I think it was an oops now... I think Forens is or Kuan would be vastly superior choices for the high elf. Distraction or reflection = good. Wisps that don't shoot very fast = bad.

I noticed there hasn't been discussion of the reflection mod of incandescent skin. I'm interested in your damage mitigation thread and you list this mod as one of the necessities for a high-elf to acheive demi-godhood. How would you change this build if using the reflection mod on incandescent skin (ex: adding some points to stamina to compensate, and if yes how many?) Also, if using combos on console, we are penalized because attack speed will determine execution speed instead of lore, so in this case would you recommend not taking CD since there is no weapon skill in the build?

Thanks you have been very helpful actually. I did make a new topic in the console section.

This section needs a section about what differs between the console version and the PC versions (ex: attack speed determines combo execution speed instead of lore skills even if combos are composed entirely of spells).... I'm not sure what all the differences are (other than the GUI - obviously) but it would be very nice to have them all in one spot.

That means at least 4-5 slots dedicated to this to get full attack speed hmm. Wonder what level the ring/ammulet was and what difficulty it was found in? I created a new topic to collect information and opinions on this. That topic is here: http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?sh...c=12234&hl= The name of the new topic is much more appropriate. I was not aware previously that it was possible to raise attack speed through other means. Changed link to reflect proper location of new thread -Zin

Combat Discipline only has this effect on Consoles, however the remainder of the logic behind the use of Attack Speed Jewelry vs Weapon Skills is still Valid, I am changing the thread title to reflect this and moving it to general discussion for it to apply to all -Zin I recently learned that if you want to use combat discipline effctively, you must attain high attack speed because (contrary to what would seem logical) combo animation execution speed is determined by your (weapon) attack speed even if the combo is composed exclusively of spells, not your casting speed as gained by "spell lore skills" such as pyro lore for high elf or nature lore for dryad. The most "simple" way to do this is is to get a weapon skill (even if you are a pure spell caster) for most effective use because combo animation execution speed is determined by your attack speed only (which is influnced by weapon skills) always, not your casting speed as gained by "spell lore skills" such as pyro lore for high elf or nature lore for dryad. It has come to my attention that you can forgo the weapon skill and get your attack speed through jewelry, so the question I had was, for a pure caster, is it better to drop the weapon skill and get all attack speed through jewelry or get the attack skill and use jewelry for socketing other things....? Can we list some examples of attack speed jewelry including item name, level and difficulty where found? Here is an example build I am thinking about: High Elf - Pure Caster but will use magic coup also which is "combat-based" ca Delphic Lore Bargaining Delphic Focus Pyro or Ice focus Concentration Armor lore Constitution Shield lore Last 2 skills: - Weapon and Combat Discipline - OR Weapon and Ancient magic - OR Combat Discipline and Ancient Magic [Edit:] Notes: Ancient Magic mastery gives +90% damage to magic cas and reduces opponents resistances by 47%. Combat discipline mastery gives +1356 damage to cas in combos and reduces combo regen time by 20%. Weapon skill mastery gives +36% attack speed, +180 attack and 23% chance for double hit (does not work with magic coup). At 120 weapon skill, you have +56,4 attack speed and +282 attack and +33,2% chance for double hit. Thoughts on this? Its an important theme I think that could affect pure casters from all class types.

Hmm, How many slots would it take to get attack speed up to 150%? Are there a lot of items that have this mod? It might be sacrificing quite a bit of slots but might be worth it.

I see, its mostly a multiplayer thing. In single player you could setup shoppers at different levels but they would need to be at difficulties they can reach alone. The idea to setup a thread for character builds with bargaining that are quick to level up for the purpose of creating shopping networks or other would still be very helpful I think, or we could just do it here but maybe that would be off topic. Edit: By the way, are all the characters in your bagaining network the same class/is it necessary? I notice that you tend to shop lots of items for your own class and few items for other classes.

Can a shopping network be setup in SP? If yes, what are recommended levels/difficulties? I don't understand how you could get a lvl5 character in gold let alone niob but maybe its possible with multiplayer only by grouping or something... We should have a thread for collecting references to easy-to-level bargaining builds exclusively for this purpose.

On the characters page there is a link to guides for the characters which goes to an empty page. Characters Page:http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Character_Class Empty Page: http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5?title...amp;action=edit This dryad page could contain a link to this page: http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?showforum=373 This would make it a lot easier for new players to find the information. Initially because right now there is nothing on the guides page of the wiki made me think initially that no guides existed.