[CM-Patch] New weapon set for Dryad

[Slevin 10]

I think what he is saying that for every/most sets in the game not every item in the set is useful and if by making this set which has no useless (or almost useless) items in it then even disregarding the %LL. Every mod suggested is one that you would want to socket in somewhere or have on your gear, look at the other weapon sets, +casting speed, +willpower, +atk speed, reflect stun, fixed lifeleech...all useful, but not something you would likely focus on. Its a tough part of balancing the set, the individual items cannot be overpowered and as a collective they cannot be overpowered.

 

Having said which, I would still like to see this implemented in someway.

That's what I mean. The set doesn't has to be weak in all, just be comparable with other existing sets. Some parts could be stronger or better so that there are new options to put together a god and useful set.

[Dobri 55]

In that case, I wholeheartedly agree with you analysis

 

Maybe we should consider giving LL% set to all chars in the CM patch. If this gets implemented, the dryad will get a second source of LL while chars like the Inquisitor, who's mostly played melee or hybrid melee/caster, gets nothing of the sort... Poor evil doer

[Woody 24]

...

 

Full set bonus

Offensive skills +xx

Chances for double-hit +xx%

 

Blowpipe

Experience per kills (EP)

Chances to inflit deadly wounds +xx%

Chances to hit more opponent's (Ranged Weapons)

1 Gold Slot

 

Ring

Dexterity +xx

Regenration per hit +xx s

 

Amulet

Chances to block : Combat Arts +xx% (Armor Lore)

+xx Max HP

 

Maybe better this way ?

Edited January 26, 2011 by Woody

[Dragon Brother 619]

Firstly, nice suggestions woody, that works for me.

 

Well...I had a quick think about a dual wield set in remembrance of Drizzt...here's what I came up with:

 

Set name - Remnants of Drizzt

 

Twinkle - 1h scimitar - dex based

 

Magic Damage

+Critical Hit x%

-Chance opponents cannot evade (Dual Wielding) x%

+ All skills/Dual Wielding...not sure which one, + all skills may be a bit overpowered for this sword...

1 gold socket

 

Icingdeath - 1h scimitar - dex based

 

Ice Damage

 

+Fire mitigation (high value?) (Dual Wielding) x%

+Ice Damage x%

+Chance to freeze x%

1 gold socket

 

Mielikki's Grace - Amulet

 

+HP xx

+Constitution/Vitality xx

 

Guenhwyvar's Refuge - Ring

 

+Dexterity +Offensive Skills xx

+Attack Speed x%

 

Set bonus

 

3 pieces: -Regen time x%

4 pieces: +Chance to evade x%

 

Most of it is just based on the described attributes of him, his weapons and his patron goddess and companion guenhwyvar (I linked to a few wiki pages describing them if any of you are interested)...I dont think its to overpowered...hopefully the ideas are at least possible to do...what do you guys think?

Edited January 27, 2011 by Dragon Brother

[Silver_fox 397]

Well, the one question is how not to make it overpowered, and the other is how to make it powerful enough to make people search for it. I can say that the new bonuslist Woody suggested looks too weak for me. I won't search through all the Ancaria for this set because I saw random yellow blowpipes with a better bonus list. The same about the amulet and ring. We should remember that finding a complete set takes some time (we don't think about cheaters now but about honest players, OK), and by the time you get at least three items, your chara would be equipped with some high-quality stuff. The set with items less powerful than the normal yellow and even blue items you have equipped is sad, isn't it?

 

Nice overall idea of the dual-wielding set. And the easely recognizable reference. I'm not a big fan of this character, I just know some facts about him. But my knowledge was enough to recognize all the names in this set without asking google. But the same - the random yellow swords (not to mention uniques, which drop more frequently than set pieces) have better bonus lists. How about adding the 'Chance to freeze' for example. And something to skills, like Dual Wielding itself.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Well, the one question is how not to make it overpowered, and the other is how to make it powerful enough to make people search for it. I can say that the new bonuslist Woody suggested looks too weak for me. I won't search through all the Ancaria for this set because I saw random yellow blowpipes with a better bonus list. The same about the amulet and ring. We should remember that finding a complete set takes some time (we don't think about cheaters now but about honest players, OK), and by the time you get at least three items, your chara would be equipped with some high-quality stuff. The set with items less powerful than the normal yellow and even blue items you have equipped is sad, isn't it?

 

Nice overall idea of the dual-wielding set. And the easely recognizable reference. I'm not a big fan of this character, I just know some facts about him. But my knowledge was enough to recognize all the names in this set without asking google. But the same - the random yellow swords (not to mention uniques, which drop more frequently than set pieces) have better bonus lists. How about adding the 'Chance to freeze' for example. And something to skills, like Dual Wielding itself.

 

The Ice sword has +chance to freeze, adding to dual wield is probably a good idea...maybe +offensive skills instead of dexterity on the ring. (edited into the original suggestions)

 

I think that unique weapons have pretty similar bonus lists to these, I tried to stay within those sort of item modifiers and the random yellow ones are limited to one less modifier and so are worse off.

 

I think that woody's most recent suggestion is pretty good, there are some nice bonuses there without everything being exactly what a dryad could wish for. As a weapon set I would wear that in preference to a randomly shopped blowpipe if I had it.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Dragon Brother

[Silver_fox 397]

I think that unique weapons have pretty similar bonus lists to these, I tried to stay within those sort of item modifiers and the random yellow ones are limited to one less modifier and so are worse off.

I saw a lot of yellow weapons with more than one bonus (one yellow bonus and something else), I have a yellow longbow with All Skills +x, Attack +x% and Fire Damage +x% at the same time.

 

By the way, maybe some Ice Damage +x% or Magic Damage +x% would be nice to see somewhere in this Dual Wielding set. It's just a common modifier which you can find on many items, but it may work nicely. How about something like +Skills on one sword and +Damage on the other one. It may make people want to use the whole set. If one sword would be better, many people would use it together with something not from this set. But if these swords would work better while together than while you have only one of them, it would be really nice.

[Slevin 10]

Well, the one question is how not to make it overpowered, and the other is how to make it powerful enough to make people search for it. I can say that the new bonuslist Woody suggested looks too weak for me. I won't search through all the Ancaria for this set because I saw random yellow blowpipes with a better bonus list. The same about the amulet and ring. We should remember that finding a complete set takes some time (we don't think about cheaters now but about honest players, OK), and by the time you get at least three items, your chara would be equipped with some high-quality stuff. The set with items less powerful than the normal yellow and even blue items you have equipped is sad, isn't it?

That is exactly what other sets are. Of course there are better yellow or other set items but that is how it works. If there is no other item in the game that is better then it's definitely overpowered. Just look at the other sets. Is every part of them worth to search for it? - No it's not and that is how we call balance. Even the fact that there are new options for a character to equip makes it easier to find a good gear.

 

Just make a few items of be worth farming for. The other parts could be weak, every set has strong and weak items. There are more ways to make an item special and worth to look for it than just to make it having srong modifiers.

 

And balancing is not making every character being overpowered in the same way by giving %LL to all of them.

[Dobri 55]

Still, the game is all about having fun

 

The CM patch adds a lot of fun stuff, and I do not see why not add a little bit more. I, personally, think that there are characters that have been granted great items and such that have been given poor sets. For example, the Inquisitor. Granted, he's one of the fastest to achieve physical damage immunity, but is sets are poor. Astute set's boni are poor. Ilgard's set boni are also relatively poor. Saraki's set is not better off. Kuan's set has good boni and sockets, but has no item mods. Balefulness set is stupid. Determined justice is good, but is nowhere near the usefulness of the Celestial/Detheya's/Combat Modules/a number of other chars' sets. Catharsis set has a lot of sockets and limited usefulness. Dreadbringer is no better off as well.

 

For that reason I think he (at least the inquisitor) deserves something decent. Dryad/Seraphim/TG have leech, Dragon Mage can make a kitbash of sets that give + all skils, SW has leeching in CM patch and good vanilla sets, and the HE, as a pure caster, has great sets for reflect and aspect support.

 

Anyone who wants a vanilla Ice and Blood game has the closed net/LAN servers or the ability to choose which set to use or not.

[Silver_fox 397]

I agree with you, Dobri. That is the thought I had several times while looking at my charas. Some of them, like both my HEs are dressed in set items (a mix of sets, but anyway), while some others wear no set items even on high levels. Not because they don't have these items, but because the items aren't worth it.

 

As for the new CM sets, I just do not want to make CM developers spend their time making something that nobody would use anyway. It is not necessary to make it a lifeleech set, but it should be somewhat interesting. Not all the items should be useful, but at least one of them.

 

Speaking about lifeleech, I've found a sword from the new Seraphim's set called 'Virtues of the Seraphim' some time ago. This thing has lifeleech + yellow bonus (don't remember exactly which one of them) + some minor bonus + slots.

[Barristan 14]

Heya,

 

here is my punchline: 'Even balance needs rebalancing'

 

Overpowered? Well.... if we are honest, this game can be way too easy in many ways.

 

Damage Mitigation is far too good.... Shadow Veil is way too easy.

 

I do not care if I need to hunt Guardians with a Shuriken and Kira, or with a LL% Blowgun.... LL% in itself is what is overpowered. Yes.... Dryad has pretty good sources... Detheya being the most overpowered, shuriken DA not close behind.

 

Exactly that is what I would find nice in having other options..... No Detheya, but a LL% blowgun.... sounds good to me.

 

You could run that with Detheya and a blowgun.... true, but now you could scrap the whole Detheya, build a nice CtFV suit, and use the blowgun. I will not say no to new options, I could however decide not to use them if I find they make the game even easier.

 

CM-patch is fun, creates lots of options.... it does not mean you have to use them.

 

This particular idea is for Dryad..... I can imagine that people have ideas for a class they are familiar with. On the other hand, I agree that Inquisitor is also in need of some revision.... but that should be another thread. This thread asks for suggestions on balancing an idea for Dryad.

 

Greetz

 

Edit: so... what I am trying to say in this wall of text.... could we try and find balance? What mods are to be used if the blowgun does have LL%

Edited January 26, 2011 by Barristan

[Dobri 55]

"Virtues of the Seraphim" set? I haven't seen it, and wiki doesn't have any images on it. Maybe I should really stop playing the good old vanilla closed net and switch to CM patch and start playing open net as many d.a.r.k members do... This way I can also check out the new stuff.

 

Still, I think it will be a good idea to implement sets that will suit all kinds of gameplay. If every character has LL% set, that's ok in my opinion, because each player will be able to experience that power with any build/hero. Quite honestly, I think that the more sets there are that cover various aspects of the game, the better, because it keeps the game spirit alive and provides better replayability. This will also make it harder to find the necessary set pieces, and will keep the player hooked for a long time.

 

EDIT: Barris... it would be fair in my opinion to play with LL% + 1 mod + 2 sockets or LL% + 2 mods + 1 socket. This is how shurikens spawn in general.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Dobri

[Barristan 14]

EDIT: Barris... it would be fair in my opinion to play with LL% + 1 mod + 2 sockets or LL% + 2 mods + 1 socket. This is how shurikens spawn in general.

 

Now.... that I should say is a more than decent suggestion

 

The Virtues sword has standard LL and double hit iirc, not LL%.

 

Greetz

[Dragon Brother 619]

I think that unique weapons have pretty similar bonus lists to these, I tried to stay within those sort of item modifiers and the random yellow ones are limited to one less modifier and so are worse off.

I saw a lot of yellow weapons with more than one bonus (one yellow bonus and something else), I have a yellow longbow with All Skills +x, Attack +x% and Fire Damage +x% at the same time.

 

By the way, maybe some Ice Damage +x% or Magic Damage +x% would be nice to see somewhere in this Dual Wielding set. It's just a common modifier which you can find on many items, but it may work nicely. How about something like +Skills on one sword and +Damage on the other one. It may make people want to use the whole set. If one sword would be better, many people would use it together with something not from this set. But if these swords would work better while together than while you have only one of them, it would be really nice.

 

The ice sword has ice damage +x%, I didnt have the x% bit added in which may have been confusing, I added those all in now. The other one could lose a socket for +x All skills and maybe a 2 piece set bonus of +Damage x% (all channel damage)...?

 

EDIT: Barris... it would be fair in my opinion to play with LL% + 1 mod + 2 sockets or LL% + 2 mods + 1 socket. This is how shurikens spawn in general.

 

Now.... that I should say is a more than decent suggestion

 

The Virtues sword has standard LL and double hit iirc, not LL%.

 

Greetz

 

Thats how shurikens work...still dryads are the only ones that use blowpipes...the other pieces of the set would probably have to be no good for %LL to be on there I feel. But maybe have one of the set bonuses useful enough to make completing the set worthwhile, otherwise noone would use any part except for the blowpipe itself.

[Silver_fox 397]

The ice sword has ice damage +x%, I didnt have the x% bit added in which may have been confusing, I added those all in now. The other one could lose a socket for +x All skills and maybe a 2 piece set bonus of +Damage x% (all channel damage)...?

As for the skills, it may be either +x All skills and lose socket, or +x Dual Wielding with the socket. All channel damage could make a nice bonus for using two swords. By the way, how about moving this discussion (about Dual Wielding set) to another topic? Looks like this one became a place to suggest new sets, not set bonus, and not only for Dryad.

 

 

As for the Dryad's set. What about +x Ranged Weapons somewhere? It's a common but useful bonus.

[czevak 57]

Thats how shurikens work...still dryads are the only ones that use blowpipes...the other pieces of the set would probably have to be no good for %LL to be on there I feel. But maybe have one of the set bonuses useful enough to make completing the set worthwhile, otherwise noone would use any part except for the blowpipe itself.

 

That is a very true and valid point you made there DB. Balancing is the most important aspect we want to cover when implementing a new set and it is way too easy to stumble over that and build a "Über"-set or "Über"-item, so no-one ever would want to use anything else.

 

Slevin is a part of the CM Patch Team as advisor for the selection of weapon and set boni of the latest additions. I value his extensive experience in this game and also his judgement on balance very high.

Edited January 27, 2011 by czevak

[Silver_fox 397]

But anyway, why does all the discussion revolve around lifeleech x% bonus? There are many other things that are useful for Dryad. Like Ranged Weapon skill which is obviosly needed to use a blowpipe well, or combat art regeneration, or some experience boost after all. We don't need to make it a lifeleech set to make it interesting. If lifeleech is overpowered, let's find another opportunity.

[Dobri 55]

Let's not forget that the dryad already has a LL% set - Detheya's. Combining that set with a good double-hit chance blowpipe can provide even better options than simply stacking LL% over and over.

 

No disrespect, but I kinda wonder why people want to make more and more sets for chars that are already overpowered... Even though having more sets is a lot of fun, there are characters that really need good sets - like a weapon set for a Coup-build HE, weapon set for a Dragon-build DM (because most of the builds I see online are casters), armor set for the Inquisitor, because almost all his set items are downright awful and almost all of his sets have poor boni (who wants to scare the enemy into fleeing when you are close combat oriented:)), and so on

[Woody 24]

I wonder how we can call Kanka's Relics if a LL% blowpipe set is too overpowered... godly set ?

- Stamina %

- Vitality

- Defensive Skills

- All channels damage mitigation

- Vitality (!)

- Experience per kills

- Tactic Lore

- Attack value

- Chances for critical hits

- All skills

- Opponent's chances to evade

- Stamina

- Chances that opponent's cannot evade attacks

- Regeneration per hits

- Chances to halve regeneration time

- Defense value

- All channels antiDoT

- Chances to evade

- Hitpoint regeneration

- Concentration

- Run speed

- Combat Art Skills

- Chances to disregard armor

- Armor direct bonus

- Chances to find valuables

- LL% !

 

WOW! Mostly all of the strongest bonus of the game are on this set... A single LL% blowpipe feel ridiculous compared to this...

Edited January 29, 2011 by Woody

[Dobri 55]

I agree with Woody's assessment - Kanka's relics is a wicked set that has everything a SW character needs and is way too overpowered. I personally, don't see any harm in having an overpowered set for each character, as it's all about having fun

[essjayehm 58]

I've been trying my best to keep quiet in this thread...

 

But I should speak my peace, as my tounge cannot withstand many more toothmarks

 

So, Kanka's Relics did make it into the CM-patch, and I truly feel that now the other classes should get some Uber-lovin' too. That being said, the Dryad blowpipe set could easily be very overpowered if a particular set of choices is implemented, but obviously, I don't think the CM-team would let that happen. So, how to balance the set is the main jist of this thread. My pea-brained ideas:

 

* LL% as full-set bonus (not on pipe) AND one piece of the new set to be an Armour piece. This will squash any possibility of Deth + "new set" uber-LL%.

 

* NO double-hits +x%. Ravaged Impact already has that as a gold mod. Maybe have double-hits if it cannot possibly give RI 4-hits; I am unsure how the game handles that interaction, so IDK really if it is an issue.

 

* Maybe make the set a little above-the-grade and balance that with an extremely low-damage blowpipe (ie 10% of normal values) or replace one of the lower set-completion boni to be "Sensitivity to Fire" or otherwise "negative" modifier.

Actually, I would like to see Sensitivity to Poison, but I am a cruel SOB Also, I realize that the CM team isn't developing new modifiers and I don't recall seeing that in-game anywhere else, so it won't happen anyway

 

Now, we need some new threads for Uber-sets for Inquisitor, and Melee Dragon-Mage/Elf.

D'OH Edit: What about the Temple Guardian?

Edited January 27, 2011 by essjayehm

[Silver_fox 397]

I agree that some other characters need new sets more, than Dryad. But why not make something for her too? After all, SW got 3 new sets already, and would probably get one more soon. There already are and would be new sets for HE and Seraphim. But I didn't notice a new suggestion for the Dryad, except for this discussion. Maybe sometimes the Inquisitor would get a set that was pictured in this topic , since it was told that the CM developers are working on it.

[czevak 57]

I agree with Woody's assessment - Kanka's relics is a wicked set that has everything a SW character needs and is way too overpowered. I personally, don't see any harm in having an overpowered set for each character, as it's all about having fun

 

Yes agreed. Kankas is obviously what happens when a Modder with little game experience (me) asks the community for what they want in a Set and foolishly does as asked.

 

As I already wrote in another thread: Kankas is as bad an example as it can get and we will have to adjust that unholy thing in a coming release. (Fair is Fair)

 

To prevent that in future I asked Slevin to assist me as supreme jugde and ruler of all coming sets, shortly after this balancing disaster struck the CM.

[Barristan 14]

Heya,

 

Czevak, no worries! Not all good intentions are always perceived as such. But! Ofc the CM patch is still very much appreciated.

 

I was thinking about Kankas.... and this Dryad set.... Is it possible to give each class a Legendary set.... a.k.a overpowered set.

 

It being tier 15 would make it very hard to collect.....

 

Just a thought!

 

Greetz

Edited January 28, 2011 by Barristan

[Dragon Brother 619]

Heya,

 

Czevak, no worries! Not all good intentions are always perceived as such. But! Ofc the CM patch is still very much appreciated.

 

I was thinking about Kankas.... and this Dryad set.... Is it possible to give each class a Legendary set.... a.k.a overpowered set.

 

It being tier 15 would make it very hard to collect.....

 

Just a thought!

 

Greetz

 

That could be interesting...perhaps make it a full weapon and armour set so that even though its overpowered you couldnt match detheyas and a %LL blowpipe?