New Feature: The Hellfire Arena

[Flix 5,184]

7 hours ago, Tharkun said:

I just finished this quest and it is awesome, hard and challenging but in a good way and the best of all, the loot, I'm absolutely loaded with new gear (and the final reward wich is very, very cool).

That's wonderful to hear. Glad the challenge was worth the reward.

7 hours ago, Tharkun said:

The only odd thing I found is when fighting round 7 (phase 1) the one large humanoid mounted disappeared mid fight, but I left the game and re-entered and it fixed.

Yes, that's an odd thing, it seems sometimes the mount counts as the "kill" instead of the rider.  I was talking about this with Dmitriy and it seems to happen to the first mounted opponent killed in a given game session.

[chattius 2,626]

Daughter reported a problem using paladin's conversion. A NPC was marked as enemy but couldn't be attacked after conversion dropped. Not sure if the NPC was summoned in combat or one of the normal quest characters. No name was shown she says.

Couldn't finish the combat.

[Flix 5,184]

6 hours ago, chattius said:

Daughter reported a problem using paladin's conversion. A NPC was marked as enemy but couldn't be attacked after conversion dropped. Not sure if the NPC was summoned in combat or one of the normal quest characters. No name was shown she says.

Couldn't finish the combat.

Thanks.  It's not unique to D2F; this is a rare pre-existing bug with the original spell, Instill Belief.  I've no clue how to fix it.

If there's no name displayed she's probably playing the French version.  For some reason I can't discern, some NPC's and enemies are missing names in the French version even though they're encoded properly.

I think I listed both issues in the .txt file of Known Bugs that I'm unable to resolve.

[Androdion 899]

So I've done all four phases and correspondent eight stages in Easy at level 36. I just wanted to take a break from the main campaign and went there to try it. So a few things:

• What defines the mob level in this mode? I ask this because in all rounds out of the 32 the mobs where always at the same level. Thing is, in my case and for some reason the mobs were all level 2.  I did do the Ancaria Airlines quest early in the game, maybe there's some weirdo overlap there?
• All mobs and rounds worked perfectly except for one, Ghost of Christmas Past. That boss was impossible to hit with anything other than a spell-based CA. Left click attacks would miss every time, weapon-based CAs the same, reflection from Thorns did nothing. It was only when I cast Fist of the Heavens that I started actually hitting it. Weird.
• I assume the final rewards always spawn at your character's current level? They're nice but in Easy at level 36 they seem lesser than they can be. I'm curious about them at higher levels though.
• One suggestion I'd make would be to have Lamela appear farther away from the statue as it's sometimes hard to get the dialogue cursor. But that's pretty much a QOL thing, nothing else.

[chattius 2,626]

I think on easy the start island has a maximum enemy level of 2. My Singer finished the arena at level 9.

[Androdion 899]

Uhm, the Enemy Levels tables on the Wiki don't cite the Multiplayer Island so I had no way to know it. And now that I think of it no one does, right? So if the arena mobs do spawn at a specific level, or at least in an interval related to which difficulty level you're playing it, I think it should be stated in some sort of "recommended levels" disclaimer. I could've had a splurge with all the massive level 2 gear I got there, but being level 36 I sold everything but set and uniques since they dropped at their earliest level available (some as high as level 30).

[chattius 2,626]

52 minutes ago, Androdion said:

Uhm, the Enemy Levels tables on the Wiki don't cite the Multiplayer Island so I had no way to know it. And now that I think of it no one does, right? So if the arena mobs do spawn at a specific level, or at least in an interval related to which difficulty level you're playing it, I think it should be stated in some sort of "recommended levels" disclaimer. I could've had a splurge with all the massive level 2 gear I got there, but being level 36 I sold everything but set and uniques since they dropped at their earliest level available (some as high as level 30).

Doing the Hellfire Arena with 4 new characters now ... keeping the good low level stuff makes if a lot easier for each new character to start. So all has its cons and pros.

[Androdion 899]

That was actually my first thought about it!  Much better stuff than a level 2 Bargainer right?

I just reloaded the game for the first time since finishing this mode and I have some skill and attribute points unassigned, did you get those as well?

[chattius 2,626]

Finishing the arena gives 5 stat and 5 skill points, a relic with always all 5 resists and some random (best was +allskills so far), and a jewel for socketing which did +1-1damage to all damage types and chance for secondary effects.

The last one could be interesting for a fighter with damage lore applying 5 effects ... But probably really good only with maxed damage lore.

[Androdion 899]

1 hour ago, chattius said:

5 stat and 5 skill points

Yep, that was it. Seems like a decent boost early on from level 2 mobs, even if they're high-end bosses.

[Flix 5,184]

Have no idea why the enemy levels were so low.  CM 1.40+ has removed regional level caps in region.txt

mgr.regionSetup(150,{
	name = "Spec. Location 11 - Multiplayer Island (0)",
	minLevel = 0,
	maxLevel = 0,
	musicProfile = 22,
	roomSetup =  1,
	dungeonSetup =  7,
})

But it seems some other factor is in play.  Maybe something in balance.txt.

Quest creatures don't even spawn through spawn.txt the same way other enemies do.  They're supposed to match your level at the time the game session starts.

[chattius 2,626]

Stupid idea, when is the quest created? By logging in the first time on a difficulty level and the quest giver is created or when first talking to the quest giver?

[Flix 5,184]

2 hours ago, chattius said:

Stupid idea, when is the quest created? By logging in the first time on a difficulty level and the quest giver is created or when first talking to the quest giver?

Quest states get baked into character files as soon as the first load and are updated each time the character is saved.  Quest creatures should update each time the game is loaded.  Unless Androdion loaded the game at level 2 and then played til level 36 without ever exiting, it doesn't make sense for the opponents to be level 2.

If that it was that happened though, it makes perfect sense.

[Androdion 899]

1 hour ago, Flix said:

Unless Androdion loaded the game at level 2 and then played til level 36 without ever exiting

Ha ha, no way mate!

If the spawn level of both mobs and gear is supposed to be tied to the toon's level then I have no idea why it's happening. But apparently it's happening to both of us. Has anyone tried to see the quest's behaviour when it's accepted in Normal (and in Hard, Nightmare, Hell)? Does it behave in the same way as in Easy?

[Flix 5,184]

46 minutes ago, Androdion said:

Ha ha, no way mate!

If the spawn level of both mobs and gear is supposed to be tied to the toon's level then I have no idea why it's happening. But apparently it's happening to both of us. Has anyone tried to see the quest's behaviour when it's accepted in Normal (and in Hard, Nightmare, Hell)? Does it behave in the same way as in Easy?

Well I tested the ever-living daylights out of it in Hard & Nightmare, and everything was as expected.  Even after re-loading partway through the quest, the enemies continued to match levels (anywhere between 90-200 for most of my tests).

I suspect Easy is just jacked up with regard to enemy levels (why are you guys spending so much time in Easy anyways)  

[Flix 5,184]

21 hours ago, Androdion said:

All mobs and rounds worked perfectly except for one, Ghost of Christmas Past. That boss was impossible to hit with anything other than a spell-based CA. Left click attacks would miss every time, weapon-based CAs the same, reflection from Thorns did nothing. It was only when I cast Fist of the Heavens that I started actually hitting it. Weird.

Just noticed this.  It's not actually anything to do with that particular enemy.

I've noticed this happen with various bosses since playing way back in the day.  But it is very rare, and I've encountered it perhaps 3-4 times.  Once with Failitia, once with the Poison Lord, and the others I can't quite remember.  But it is terrifying to have happen since only spell damage will work.  What I remember is that the hits connected, but no damage was taken by the boss. It was as if every attack was blocked.

11 hours ago, Androdion said:

So if the arena mobs do spawn at a specific level, or at least in an interval related to which difficulty level you're playing it, I think it should be stated in some sort of "recommended levels" disclaimer.

Do you think Deckard Cain or one of the others should say it?  If you want it from me, I'd say Hellfire Arena is for level 50+ Normal difficulty or higher.

[Androdion 899]

It's the Inferno+Superspawn creeps, and after v12 I decided it was best to start it (literally) easy and then have my toon properly equipped to deal with Normal difficulty. Which I incidentally just started at level 41 (yeah, I completed the main quest, plus the nine quests that give skill or attribute points, and killed all the Elemental Lords). Now the SB is finally hitting but so am I, with only two skills to pick and a roster of equipment that will help me get a good start, even though I've noticed how outdated in terms of boni my gear is with just the jump in difficulty. Well, it beats starting undressed.

Curious note, the Multiplayer Island portal isn't active by default at the start of the session so I really need to do Ancaria Airlines to reach it. Plus I have to manually activate it when I'm there, just like any other portal.

[Androdion 899]

1 hour ago, Flix said:

Do you think Deckard Cain or one of the others should say it?  If you want it from me, I'd say Hellfire Arena is for level 50+ Normal difficulty or higher.

Nah, I was talking about the patch notes. I'm going to start the Arena mode now in Silver, see at what level they spawn in the first round, then jump a level and see if they match up (or if at least the second round does). I'll be back.

PS: And I'm back. It's all working as it should in Normal difficulty. Grabbed the quest at level 42 and enemies spawned at toon level plus SB, it's +5 now so 42 to 47. Went for some grind and came back at level 43, started round 2 and voilá, they're level 48. So the quest/spawn/mode is behaving normally. No idea why it does what it does in Easy.

[Flix 5,184]

1 hour ago, Androdion said:

Curious note, the Multiplayer Island portal isn't active by default at the start of the session so I really need to do Ancaria Airlines to reach it. Plus I have to manually activate it when I'm there, just like any other portal.

Just load the character into a LAN game.  The portal will be activated thereafter in singleplayer.

1 hour ago, Androdion said:

It's the Inferno+Superspawn creeps

Inferno + Easy    Can't even get my head around it lol.

I wouldn't recommend any new character play with Inferno.  The idea was having a place to take your ultra builds who having too easy of a time in the upper levels and difficulties.

[Androdion 899]

33 minutes ago, Flix said:

Just load the character into a LAN game.  The portal will be activated thereafter in singleplayer.

Gotcha! 

34 minutes ago, Flix said:

Inferno + Easy    Can't even get my head around it lol.

I wouldn't recommend any new character play with Inferno.  The idea was having a place to take your ultra builds who having too easy of a time in the upper levels and difficulties.

Ha ha, I know. It sounds like a complete contradiction right?!  The idea is to play the game at its most challenging, hence all the care to stay alive. I can tell you this, a new still developing toon playing like this is good because it makes me keep my eyes open. I can't just round up 30+ mobs and then start swinging at them like I'm in Niob running 20k of armour and +75 All Skills. No, I need to devise ideas to overcome that challenge, and thus the game makes me think and stop and rewind. Sure, it's pretty ridiculous at points when all I can do kill a particular mob is Smite it to death, but it's this kind of wake up call that "wait, you still only have a pre-mastery toon with obvious gaps". That's why I played for so long in Easy and did the entire campaign, because I wanted to see if it was possible. It is, zero deaths to show for, slow but steady. And if things keep developing well enough I may be building the tank I've desired for a while. We'll see about that, but in the meantime the challenge (and redlines) keeps me awake.

[Flix 5,184]

Well as long as you feel it is working for you.    I have to say Easy/Bronze is my least-tested difficulty so I wouldn't be shocked if there are more irregularities there.

I have to take feedback on difficulty and challenge with a grain of salt when anyone plays with Inferno or Challenge Mode.

[Androdion 899]

I've been slowly advancing through stage one in the Arena, now that they're spawning above my level. Already hit round 7 but didn't try it yet as round 6 already had a few close calls and this next one has that Bloodwitch gal.  Round 6 was the first round without superuniques and with four bosses, yaikes!

I think that what's really interesting in this mode is how you need to isolate the worst offender and leave it for last, as opposed to normal gameplay out in the open when you want to target it first. It's a nice change of pace in terms of tactics. The hardest thing to balance is the chosen armour type, but I think that at higher levels I'll just have to run with a custom slot with one of each channel type to maximize my chances. It should work nicely with Toughness.

[Flix 5,184]

3 hours ago, Androdion said:

I've been slowly advancing through stage one in the Arena, now that they're spawning above my level. Already hit round 7 but didn't try it yet as round 6 already had a few close calls and this next one has that Bloodwitch gal.  Round 6 was the first round without superuniques and with four bosses, yaikes!

[Androdion 899]

So round 7. What the hell is going on with Kujin?! 

I start hacking at it, health goes down a bit and there's a few items that drop on its position but the boss is still there with 75-80% HP. Then after a while it suddenly vanishes into thin air. The only way it reappears is if I exit and reload, except that when I do that the same thing happens again. Tried it three times already and the result is always the same. So I can't kill it and I can't advance.

PS: Well when I'm stubborn I'm stubborn. I've tried it a few more times and at the last two tries I stopped kiting altogether and just headbutted it to death, first time I wasn't fast enough but on the second I did manage to kill it. Oh and if I take a look at the latest opponent window the supposed kills that gave the drops are all there, black square for a portrait. Weird stuff.

[chattius 2,626]

Let me guess: she is mounted and you didn't kill a mounted in this session before?