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ReSpec in UnBended - Yay or Nay?


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#81 gogoblender

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Posted 07 August 2015 - 06:13 PM

D-molisher is looking for a shared community experience of suffering, hard work and victory.

It's not the same 

 

I hope theres No respec at all.
It would killl ther longviety off the game, having a respec.
It would be like D3, and just a quick playthrough game - then be bored while hunting a new game ...
Just my hunble thoughts off respec in all RPG games now a days.



The only problem with not having a compromise is misplacing one point after 60 hours of play on a character you live and having to start from scratch. No one do far has advocated for a D3 style if game.

Half the peeps see that as being a problem..the other half as the great value of no respec

:)

 

gogo



#82 Flix

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Posted 07 August 2015 - 06:22 PM

Having finally played Diablo 3 extensively this week, I don't even consider what D3 has as "respec" and it's kind of a joke that anyone could consider it so.  Diablo 3 doesn't even have skill points.  It just unlocks stuff at regular intervals and you choose which ones you want to use for each battle.  Choosing a different skill in D3 isn't "respec" any more than is choosing to put Soul Hammer instead of Pelting Strikes into your active CA slot.

 

Respec is when you spend a resource, like a skill point or a consumbable rune, losing it to gain power, and then having the option to get that resource back, ideally by paying another price, making another exchange.  This is what's done in Titan Quest and Grim Dawn, Torchlight, Dungeon Siege II, etc.  and that's what I'm in favor of.  I don't think my thoughts have really changed otherwise on the matter from what I posted earlier in the thread.


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#83 Veracious

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 11:59 AM

Having finally played Diablo 3 extensively this week, I don't even consider what D3 has as "respec" and it's kind of a joke that anyone could consider it so.  Diablo 3 doesn't even have skill points.  It just unlocks stuff at regular intervals and you choose which ones you want to use for each battle.  Choosing a different skill in D3 isn't "respec" any more than is choosing to put Soul Hammer instead of Pelting Strikes into your active CA slot.
 
Respec is when you spend a resource, like a skill point or a consumbable rune, losing it to gain power, and then having the option to get that resource back, ideally by paying another price, making another exchange.  This is what's done in Titan Quest and Grim Dawn, Torchlight, Dungeon Siege II, etc.  and that's what I'm in favor of.  I don't think my thoughts have really changed otherwise on the matter from what I posted earlier in the thread.


This is true. To be fair d3 doesn't really have specing at all. It's all automatic allocation. The difference between that and sacred 2 is that everything d3 does to your character works for every skill. It's very one dimensional. Switching out skills in sacred is more difficult because the lores n focuses are for dedicated aspects. Those points would be what you'd be respecing. In d3 your main attribute is mainstreamed throughout the characters abilities.

#84 Veracious

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 12:21 PM

D-molisher is looking for a shared community experience of suffering, hard work and victory.
It's not the same 
 



I hope theres No respec at all.
It would killl ther longviety off the game, having a respec.
It would be like D3, and just a quick playthrough game - then be bored while hunting a new game ...
Just my hunble thoughts off respec in all RPG games now a days.

The only problem with not having a compromise is misplacing one point after 60 hours of play on a character you live and having to start from scratch. No one do far has advocated for a D3 style if game.
Half the peeps see that as being a problem..the other half as the great value of no respec
:)
 
gogo
Yea I get it. But it's not really shared when only one in ten people dies n has to start over alone. But that's hardcore.People playing softcore do so because they don't have the time to dedicate to restarting after every mistake or death. Fixing one point here or there after a hard-earned quest or item craft seems like a fine option. POE has this. Its one point here or there that can't rest a whole character but allows you to discover the best skill path for the most efficient use of attribute points without having to cookie cut someone else's build. It allows for single player discovery for those who aren't full time players. It keeps game play organic and relieves any stress from a first time play through if you find you clicked wrong or chose something that doesn't properly affect the combat art you're focusing on. A single point allowance that needs to be earned can be like any weapon or armor that is a reward instead of a random drop. It doesn't ruin anything. It doesn't kill replayability and it doesn't allow full character reset. There's no downside. You can also choose not to personally use it.

Edited by Veracious, 08 August 2015 - 09:33 PM.


#85 wolfie2kX

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 09:24 PM

OK.. I'm gonna finally chime in here.. 

 

On the one hand, respecing sucks. As everyone pretty much has said, it takes a lot out of the game. 

 

On the other hand, it can save you from a potentially BIG mistake. I recall doing something in Sacred 2 many moons ago - I was checking out skills and for some reason I was hovering over Divine Devotion.... I clicked on something else and somehow I wound up getting that skill. It was NOT in my game plan.. Fortunately, there's a game editor that allowed me to fix that. So SOME respecing in case of a mistake like that IS a good thing.

 

On the other hand... In Wartune - a flash based MMO RPG I've played, you do have the option of respecing.. You need to pay about $9 USD worth of game currency and you can remove all your accumulated skill points and redistribute them... Early on, this can be a good thing - but by the time you reach level 80 (which is max), you have all your skills maxed anyhow - and it's not like you can just dump points into any one skill to make it overpowered. 


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#86 Veracious

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 09:28 PM

OK.. I'm gonna finally chime in here.. 
 
On the one hand, respecing sucks. As everyone pretty much has said, it takes a lot out of the game. 
 
On the other hand, it can save you from a potentially BIG mistake. I recall doing something in Sacred 2 many moons ago - I was checking out skills and for some reason I was hovering over Divine Devotion.... I clicked on something else and somehow I wound up getting that skill. It was NOT in my game plan.. Fortunately, there's a game editor that allowed me to fix that. So SOME respecing in case of a mistake like that IS a good thing.
 
On the other hand... In Wartune - a flash based MMO RPG I've played, you do have the option of respecing.. You need to pay about $9 USD worth of game currency and you can remove all your accumulated skill points and redistribute them... Early on, this can be a good thing - but by the time you reach level 80 (which is max), you have all your skills maxed anyhow - and it's not like you can just dump points into any one skill to make it overpowered. 


So you're undecided lol.

#87 lujate

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 11:35 AM

wolfie, I think you needed a "Are you sure?" button not a respec.


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#88 bhav

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 02:19 AM

No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

#89 Veracious

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 10:54 AM

No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.

Edited by Veracious, 18 March 2016 - 10:55 AM.


#90 lujate

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 12:07 PM


No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
With Sacred 2 there was a difference. There was no respec in Closed Net, but the character editor programs allowed you to "respec" other toons.
"Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it." -Gandhi

#91 bhav

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 01:53 PM


No respecs in game ...
But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.
Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
No, its as simple as downloading a user made app to customise your character.

This way people who don't want respec options in game and never want to use them are also catered for. People who want to respec can do so via third party tools.

Edited by bhav, 18 March 2016 - 01:54 PM.


#92 Veracious

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 03:48 PM



No respecs in game ...
But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.
Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
No, its as simple as downloading a user made app to customise your character.

This way people who don't want respec options in game and never want to use them are also catered for. People who want to respec can do so via third party tools.

The easiest option is for disagreeing players to just not use it instead of other players risking viruses or errors.

#93 Veracious

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 03:54 PM




No respecs in game ...

But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.

Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
With Sacred 2 there was a difference. There was no respec in Closed Net, but the character editor programs allowed you to "respec" other toons.
Editors allow you to build from scratch. I don't think anyone has argued for that. Just a simple "erase a misclick" or "oh that was a bad choice for this build" backspace option. No one's saying they want to completely rebuild their character to try a different variant. They just don't want wasted points or to have to start from zero after a hundred hours of dedication. A point here a point there.

Edited by Veracious, 18 March 2016 - 09:31 PM.


#94 bhav

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 08:14 PM


No respecs in game ...
But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.
Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
No, its as simple as downloading a user made app to customise your character.
This way people who don't want respec options in game and never want to use them are also catered for. People who want to respec can do so via third party tools.

The easiest option is for disagreeing players to just not use it instead of other players risking viruses or errors.

Not sure how new you are to PC gaming, but modding isn't anything new, its as safe as using the community patch for Sacred 2.

#95 bhav

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 08:17 PM


No respecs in game ...
But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.
Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
With Sacred 2 there was a difference. There was no respec in Closed Net, but the character editor programs allowed you to "respec" other toons.

Editors allow you to build from scratch. I don't think anyone has argued for that. Just a simple "erase a misclick" or "oh that was a bad choice for this build" backspace option. No one's saying they want to completely rebuild their character to try a different variant. They just don't want wasted points or to have ti start from zero after a hundred his of dedication. A point here a point there.

And you can do exactly that very easily with the Sacred 2 character editor:

http://www.nexusmods...acred2/mods/2/?

#96 Veracious

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 09:37 PM



No respecs in game ...
But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.
Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
No, its as simple as downloading a user made app to customise your character.
This way people who don't want respec options in game and never want to use them are also catered for. People who want to respec can do so via third party tools.
The easiest option is for disagreeing players to just not use it instead of other players risking viruses or errors.
Not sure how new you are to PC gaming, but modding isn't anything new, its as safe as using the community patch for Sacred 2.


And while everyone here seems to be wonderful Human beings it may not be the same when downloading grim some other third party site. Your view is to limit other people's gaming options while limiting your own around your play style is more convenient to the whole. You don't like the undo option that's fine. You don't have to participate in it. Others who don't have the hours to spend rebuilding an entire character or staying the game over from scratch would find a single point undo option helpful to their limited amount of free time. And it wouldn't feel like cheating as much as something like a complete character editor.

#97 Veracious

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 09:42 PM



No respecs in game ...
But respecs via modding tools for those that want to use them like with Sacred 2.
Just allow open source modding to handle stuff like this.

Doesn't that just offer the same thing? Why make it so difficult for people without that type of program knowledge? Whether there's an earned way to do it in game or a way to edit it manually in the code you achieve the same ends. Your point makes no sense.
With Sacred 2 there was a difference. There was no respec in Closed Net, but the character editor programs allowed you to "respec" other toons.
Editors allow you to build from scratch. I don't think anyone has argued for that. Just a simple "erase a misclick" or "oh that was a bad choice for this build" backspace option. No one's saying they want to completely rebuild their character to try a different variant. They just don't want wasted points or to have ti start from zero after a hundred his of dedication. A point here a point there.
And you can do exactly that very easily with the Sacred 2 character editor:

http://www.nexusmods...acred2/mods/2/?

Yes or by earning it in game. Which is less like cheating than editing the game externally. And better for everyone on the whole.

#98 Knuckles

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 05:51 AM

Eveyone has different play styles...and many because of jobs/family cannot spend huge amounts of time to re-start characters. Many like myself do not like using mods or editors and instead like playing the way the developer intended. Of course some mods that fix or add content I will use. Others dislike having to make new characters all the time because of build mistakes ( I love trying out new and weird builds). It's really player preference.

 

Respec is one of those features where most people either love it or hate it....I sort of was in the 'hate it' side. I want my choices to have consequences. I want my characters to be individual. So if the game has infintie free respec, for me some re-playability is lost

 

So I guess, to me, the best solution is a compromise between no respec or infinite respec. Something like what Grim Dawn is doing. While you cannot refund Mastery points you can undo any Skill or Devotion points you have invested. But costs scale up the more you use it

 

Some people don't like that either and complain about costs but I think it's the best way to make both sides happy. You can try any skill for a few levels, see if it fits your build, and if not simply take the points back out. But if you continue to do it, you will soon find it becomes too expensive.  Which to me, encourages re-playability

 

Plus you can undo any misclick for free as long as you don't leave that section






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