Schot 407 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Ok ok, I give. Reality, and my bowels, have forced me with all it's might to finally accept the fact that even against every desperate rational reason I could think of that Milk... Is no longer on the menu. *screams "Noooo!" as if his mommy were being taken away from him* Well that analogy ain't too far off the mark I suppose. I'm laughing at myself because I've actually been enduring these terrible bouts of near birthing experiences for yeeeeeaaars. And no word of a lie. I would often find myself paused, (more like frozen), somewhere practicing labour breathing techniques, lol. I had developed my own personal technique even. ^^ Ladies, if ever you need a breathing instructor... I'm yer man! I just went out for a walk and along the way I thought to myself; wouldn't a coffee be great right about now. Into the nearest caf house I went and ordered me up a modest small cup'o'joe. Double double if you please. Next stop was the veggie store where I often go to pick up some healthful foods. There I was strolling through the store when it hit me like a sucker punch to the gut. The sound of my guts boiling over still clear in my mind... Play: collywobbles.wav That's an all too familiar sound to me. One that hadn't visited me in quite some time because I had cut milk from my diet some time ago in an elimination diet. Like I always did I pretended it was just a wee bubble and that it was nothing. Fool that I am! ^^ Shortly after I was stricken to the core. "Oh boy, here we go..." Breathe, breathe, breeeeeaaaathe aaaaand hold breathe. All the while still in the store and inadvertently making some freshly squeezed OJ, eh heh... Guess I'll need to pay for the oranges. At that point I knew I was doomed. There's only one cure for such a terrible affliction and that cure was a good 15 minute walk away. I promptly decided I reeeeaaally didn't need anything in the store and headed home. As I stumbled home in agony as wave after wave of the need to push washed over me I clutched my belly with one hand while the other grasped at the air in front of me as if desperately pulling myself home with the only appendage that had any strength left. Oh god I had forgotten how painful it could be. If I had to count how many times I've done this to myself? Lemme tell yah... I'd have a heck of a lot of children eh! In my defense I really had no idea all these years it was milk causing me this pain. It doesn't always happen and most times I'm having milk with other foods so I could never be certain anyway. At any rate I never would have guessed that milk intolerance could create THAT kind of pain. Wow... It seems clear to me now though. Just 10 minutes after having a coffee and bam, mega baby alert. Lesson learned. Milk just isn't for me anymore. I do love Milk and I'll miss it but the good news is I've taken a liking to Vanilla Soya Milk. Yum! No more babies for me. ^^ Link to comment
Furian67 15 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Oh brother, you weave such a picture to envision. I feel for you. Link to comment
cider_steve 26 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Hey there Schot. I'm sorry to hear that mate, sounds awful. I'm interested to know, is it just milk, or is it other dairy products like cheese etc ? My mum has a yeast intollerence, and the number of products containing that is mind blowing ! The times she has thought she'd got a yeast free item, and ended up unwell. Good luck with controlling your diet, and I wish you good health. Steve. Link to comment
wolfie2kX 528 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Sounds like a new nick is in order... Say it loud! Say it proud! I am Lactose, the Intolerant! Link to comment
Knuckles 904 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 wow thx for the visual I can't stop picturing holding your stomach in agony walking back to your place. Glad it only lasts for 10-20 minutes. I have an iron stomach - I eat/drink anything..and I do mean anything. Except coffee, coffee ties my stomach up in knots. But I only tried coffee maybe 6 times before I gave up on it and haven't had any since, oh about 1982. Link to comment
Popcicle 0 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 First off, I feel for you Schot, I myself could not live without milk, I go through 2-3 1,5 liter packs a day... I drink it instead of water..Healthy huh? And I used to think I was allergic to lactose or lactose intolerant though I've noticed its in mixture with other products such as when you have Spaghetti Bolognese or something. Though the stomach pains I experience are nothing compared to yours, so I can live with it and the attraction of drinking milk is bigger than the pain so I'm glad to be able to drink reg. milk instead of lactose free ones.. (Not for me!) Good luck Link to comment
cider_steve 26 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I was just wondering Schot, have you actually been to see some one about this ? A doctor, dietitian, or a specialist ? Link to comment
cider_steve 26 Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 wow thx for the visual I can't stop picturing holding your stomach in agony walking back to your place. Glad it only lasts for 10-20 minutes. I have an iron stomach - I eat/drink anything..and I do mean anything. Except coffee, coffee ties my stomach up in knots. But I only tried coffee maybe 6 times before I gave up on it and haven't had any since, oh about 1982. Knuckles you nutter, you're not supposed to eat the coffee raw ! Link to comment
Schot 407 Posted January 16, 2011 Author Share Posted January 16, 2011 Silly Knuckles. Trix are fer kids! ^^ Oh brother, you weave such a picture to envision. I feel for you. Hope I didn give you nightmares. ^^ Hey there Schot. I'm sorry to hear that mate, sounds awful. I'm interested to know, is it just milk, or is it other dairy products like cheese etc ? My mum has a yeast intollerence, and the number of products containing that is mind blowing ! The times she has thought she'd got a yeast free item, and ended up unwell. Good luck with controlling your diet, and I wish you good health. Steve. Good question Cider. Like many things to do with the body my reaction is so clear cut, straight forward. Cheese actually seems to be ok. Interesting fact about cheese is that it has significantly less lactose than milk. It has about 10-20% the amount milk normally has. Add to that that some forms of milk, dried & condensed, can have 4 times or more of the amount that normal milk has. I seem to be ok with yogurt as well... Sounds like a new nick is in order... Say it loud! Say it proud! I am Lactose, the Intolerant! *Stands up* That's it Milk! I will tolerate you no more! wow thx for the visual I can't stop picturing holding your stomach in agony walking back to your place. Glad it only lasts for 10-20 minutes. I have an iron stomach - I eat/drink anything..and I do mean anything. Except coffee, coffee ties my stomach up in knots. But I only tried coffee maybe 6 times before I gave up on it and haven't had any since, oh about 1982. That used to be the case for me. *sniff* Actually, that's not really true. When something isn't good for me my body speaks loudly about it. Often won't even let me eat greasy foods. I never imagined coffee could be doing me wrong but that's another food that has been under investigation. It's been giving me some nasty jitters on and off for about a year now. Another habit I might have to kick... Interesting note I read about coffee. It's effects can be much stronger for non smokers than smokers and since I quit smoking over a year ago... Coffee is supposedly less irritating for smokers since nicotine has a calming effect and also causes your body to remove caffeine more quickly. So of you drink 4 cups of coffee in a day, quit smoking and maintain the same amount of coffee per day you'll effectively be drinking 8. Worse yet is having 2 cups of coffee one after another when you've quit smoking. You'll likely need to be tied down, haha. First off, I feel for you Schot, I myself could not live without milk, I go through 2-3 1,5 liter packs a day... I drink it instead of water..Healthy huh? And I used to think I was allergic to lactose or lactose intolerant though I've noticed its in mixture with other products such as when you have Spaghetti Bolognese or something. Though the stomach pains I experience are nothing compared to yours, so I can live with it and the attraction of drinking milk is bigger than the pain so I'm glad to be able to drink reg. milk instead of lactose free ones.. (Not for me!) Good luck Oh I hear that! Milk was my staple. My catch all. I could easily go through a whole day of only drinking milk, hehe. It was my lazy food. ^^ A mixed interaction could be the problem. I'm still not 100% sure what's going on but I'm fairly certain milk is a part of the equation. I was just wondering Schot, have you actually been to see some one about this ? A doctor, dietitian, or a specialist ? Not yet. But it's high time I did. I have one more experiment to run and that will be the true test. In fact I think I'll try it in an hour and see. A few days ago I bought a 250ml carton of 2% milk. Drinking that should provide some insight. But it seems to be on and off. For example I had a coffee from that very same coffee shop I mentioned in my first post several times in the past month and I didn't have the reaction I had last night. What may have made the difference last night is that I hadn't eaten much yesterday. Particularly, I had an empty stomach when I drank the coffee so that might be the problem right there. Maybe too much caffeine or lactose hitting my system at once. *grabs carton of milk* Welp. Here goes nothin! Link to comment
chattius 2,529 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Just to clear some words (being not a native english speaker): Lactose intolerance is the unability of a body to digest lactose? While 90% of people in africa suffer from it, it is way less in traditional milk producing areas (Buttermilch, Dickmilch, Sauermilch, we have 10 different names for more or less fermented milk). I think it is about 1-2% in our area if only the families which lived there for centuries count. If I remember right then the ability to digest lactose is a mutation. We live north of the limes (roman germanic border wall) so way less intolerance than germans south of it. The 30 year war 1618-1648 had mainly swedish soldiers raiding this area. Swedes are also highly lactose tolerant. Then there is also (cow) milk allergy. Even it is world wide much rarer than lactose intolerance it is same amount of 1-2% in my area. But in this case sometimes you can drink other milk: goat, horse, ... No need for Soya. So if you would live here: If in our region a person gets symptoms of lactose intolerance while not having it before: a gen test for the mutation is done. So they could rule out genetic lactose intolerance. If the mutation is there then it is normally checked for illness/disease of digesting system. So here doctors normaly think people as lactose tolerant. To be sure if you have the gen for lactose tolerance: do a gen test. If you have it, so some more tests what are the reasons for the sudden intolerance. In case of our daughters it was paid by health insurance. Our oldest is 1.93 centimetres and we feared that her size may do bone problems, which would be more problematic if she would be lactose intolerant. But my wife and me proofed to be both TT-types. T is the dominant gen for tolerance so none of our kids will suffer from lactose intolerance and none of our future grandchildren. But we also know that if they show symptoms of intolerance it must be something else. article about gen tests for lactose tolerance Edited January 17, 2011 by chattius Link to comment
Popcicle 0 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Swedes are also highly lactose tolerant. Hellsyea we are :DD No dairy products are gonna break down a true Viking! Link to comment
Dragon Brother 619 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Well, I have to say that thats an unfortunate allergy/reaction there schot...going without milk would be terrible...I feel for you. Link to comment
gogoblender 3,071 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Schot have you tried those tablets http://www.lactaid.ca/en/coping-lactose.asp There is also a dairy digestion test here: https://secure.jnjcanada.com/lactaid/en/dairy-digestion-test.asp you can also buy lactose free milk here: http://www.lactaid.ca/en/prod-milk.asp I know some peeps who swear by them, and can get that love of Dairy back into their lives again. gogo Link to comment
Schot 407 Posted January 18, 2011 Author Share Posted January 18, 2011 Just to clear some words (being not a native english speaker): Lactose intolerance is the unability of a body to digest lactose? While 90% of people in africa suffer from it, it is way less in traditional milk producing areas (Buttermilch, Dickmilch, Sauermilch, we have 10 different names for more or less fermented milk). I think it is about 1-2% in our area if only the families which lived there for centuries count. If I remember right then the ability to digest lactose is a mutation. We live north of the limes (roman germanic border wall) so way less intolerance than germans south of it. The 30 year war 1618-1648 had mainly swedish soldiers raiding this area. Swedes are also highly lactose tolerant. Then there is also (cow) milk allergy. Even it is world wide much rarer than lactose intolerance it is same amount of 1-2% in my area. But in this case sometimes you can drink other milk: goat, horse, ... No need for Soya. So if you would live here: If in our region a person gets symptoms of lactose intolerance while not having it before: a gen test for the mutation is done. So they could rule out genetic lactose intolerance. If the mutation is there then it is normally checked for illness/disease of digesting system. So here doctors normaly think people as lactose tolerant. To be sure if you have the gen for lactose tolerance: do a gen test. If you have it, so some more tests what are the reasons for the sudden intolerance. In case of our daughters it was paid by health insurance. Our oldest is 1.93 centimetres and we feared that her size may do bone problems, which would be more problematic if she would be lactose intolerant. But my wife and me proofed to be both TT-types. T is the dominant gen for tolerance so none of our kids will suffer from lactose intolerance and none of our future grandchildren. But we also know that if they show symptoms of intolerance it must be something else. article about gen tests for lactose tolerance Very nice info chattius and thank you. I find the Casein allergy very interesting. I took an interest in it a couple of years ago with regards to my work outs at the gym because Casein is metabolized slowly making it a great before bedtime meal. As a part of milk that is. Today though I found some interesting symptoms regarding casein allergy which are Eczema, vomiting and hives. All three I've had over the years for unexplained reasons. Oh and one other symptom that would happen almost every day. Sometimes twice a day. Extreme lethargy. It only occurred to me yesterday that I haven't felt the need to take a nap in about a month or so. I just don't get tired during the day anymore. I did do my test yesterday which turned out interesting. About an hour after drinking 250ml of 2% milk I had light stomach pain and a whole lot of belching. That was fun. ^^ But most of all 3 hours later I became extremely tired. Now I know research has told us that milk can make us sleepy but my experience is well beyond the norm. As in a "can barely function" kind of sleepy. So it looks like Milk isn't for me. I'll look into that test you mentioned. I did see an Allergist 2 weeks ago but he didn't test me for Casein. He said I'd need to see a GI(gastro-intestinal) Doctor. Swedes are also highly lactose tolerant. Hellsyea we are :DD No dairy products are gonna break down a true Viking! I wanna be a viking too! Well, I have to say that thats an unfortunate allergy/reaction there schot...going without milk would be terrible...I feel for you. At first I thought it was terrible too but now I'm starting to feel happy about it. For some years I've been feeling a bit guilty about the whole Milk industry and the process involved... And I felt even less bad when I read about rBGH(recombinant Bovine Growth Hormone) use to increase milk production in cows and traces of puss found in milk from sick cows because of rBGH. So alls well that ends me healthily well. I'm enjoying my Vanilla sweetened soya milk in my new high fiber crunchy cereal. Schot have you tried those tablets http://www.lactaid.ca/en/coping-lactose.asp There is also a dairy digestion test here: https://secure.jnjcanada.com/lactaid/en/dairy-digestion-test.asp you can also buy lactose free milk here: http://www.lactaid.ca/en/prod-milk.asp I know some peeps who swear by them, and can get that love of Dairy back into their lives again. gogo Ah, wouldn't that be nice. I think I'm gonna let milk go though. I did look into using an enzyme supplement but for the amount of milk I would normally enjoy those pills would cost a lot. It's nice to know I've improved my health out of all of this. The lethargy I frequently experienced really affected my ability to work well. To do anything well... And now I don't have that problem anymore. Link to comment
chattius 2,529 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Whow I got a lesson in lactose intolerance yesterday by my wife while we cleaned the kitchen: There are 2 types of lactose intolerance: primary and secondary. Primary would be genetic and secondary because of a disease. The gen test can rule out a primary intolerance quickly so that the docs can search for secondary reasons or false positives: not milk but for example gluten intolerance caused hydrogen in bowels. My wife says that the gen tests are way cheaper and faster than other tests, so that they are normally done before the other tests. Testing breath for hydrogen is like no eating, no work, no cigarettes for half a day, test takes some hours and man cost for people controlling you during the test are higher. Also if you have a weakened body, kidney problems and stuff like this may cause problems. Another variant is a blood sugar test in certain intervals after drinking lactose or using an endoscope to test the bowel for lactose. Old gen test is just a little blood and new ones just a little rubbing inside your mouth to get cells. But if the gen test shows that you should be tolerant then the other tests have to be done, because there is a high probability of a disease in the digesting system: tropical sprue, Morbus Crohn, ... And another things she said: Stay away from pills if you don't know what you have. The gen tests are just a few years old, so clearance(being allowed/whatever the word is) for other countries might be still pending. And they are mainly for people of european heritage, some parts of asia have a different mutation. Link to comment
Timotheus 416 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Good luck with staying off the big M When I was a baby, I was lactose intolerant and my parents didn't know what was wrong with me for about half a year or so. Can't imagine the hell it must've been for them! Now, I drink milk occaisionally and I'm OK. Hope you'll like the soy milk, it sure is a different flavor Link to comment
Genenut 8 Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 My youngest is allergic to cow milk. He loves his chocolate soy milk and soy ice cream :-) He also likes plain rice milk. I've seen soy yougurt, cheese, pudding and even creamer. No need to go without any dairy or the good protein they have, just minus the cow part that many have problems with. You may not need the casein but you do need the calcium these products provide (along with vitamin d). But if its an allergy and not lactose intolerace you have watch the ingredient lists on stuff you buy. They add milk to all sorts of things you wouldn't think they would like granola bars and spaghetti ohs. After my youngest was diagnosed we went grocery shopping . we shortly realized that it was a good thing he doesnt have a life threatening reaction to milk because its almost impossible to eliminate it entirely without making your own food. Oh and not all cheese is equal. Certain cheeses because of how they are made dont always provoke a reaction the same as others. you may have to experiment to find out which ones are okay and which arent. Good luck! let us know what new foodstuffs you discover .. Link to comment
chattius 2,529 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The supermarket closest to our place has a quarter of its food department for sugar free, lactose free, gluten free or nut free stuff. And cheese can have a lot of other allergic stuff: there is cheese with nuts, mold cheese, fruits, ... So if the production lines are not carefully cleaned people may get an allergic reaction to nuts even they bought normal cheese. 3 classmates of my daughters suffer from gluten allergy. So at birthday parties it was always which potatoe chips or sweets are free of gluten. Take for example Kinder Chocolate. The company writes on its homepage that it is free of gluten. But only if you buy the normal chocolate bars or Ü-Eier (short for Überraschungseier translates as surprise eggs = Kinder_Surprise available everywhere except USA). If you buy the small Kinderchocolade piece in a bag,then they may contain gluten, because the same machine runs other chocolade variants too. I have only one allergy; I blush and can't breath when I am close to girls. Not all, but the ones which take a certain perfume with stuff from a certain orchid. And it is not triggered by just one breath, but being close for 15 minutes or more. So being forced to leave an opera, theatre or something like this because of a nearby girl using this perfume is not nice. Now my wife pays the cards, saying she is a doc and she may be called out for emergencies so she wants a place close to the door (so way less people around=less risc) to disturb noone. The classmates of my oldest daughter know of my allergy so if they visit us they take another perfume. Soon our second will have to do the same procedure to her classmates I think. When I was 17 I always got an allergic reaction when having chemics at school. So dozens of allergy tests were done, the teacher even changed room when all failed. My allergy was noticed when the girl 2 places away was ill for 2 weeks. No allergy and as soon she was back the allergy was back too. My daughter actually likes my allergy, she takes my allergy-card and asks for perfume probes at shops. She claims that perfume contains are a secret(I would right away sign a law forcing to write all contents on the perfume flask) and she has to do try and error with the probes in case her classmates use a wrong perfume. So she has no need to buy perfume yet. Link to comment
Graeystone 3 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 Schot - Were you drinking pasteurized or non-pasteurized milk? If you were sticking to just one and it was affecting you, you may want to 'sample' the other and see what that does. Link to comment
Schot 407 Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Whow I got a lesson in lactose intolerance yesterday by my wife while we cleaned the kitchen: There are 2 types of lactose intolerance: primary and secondary. That's an interesting point because I had been thinking that my reaction was coming from something else. In fact I was thinking my lactose reaction was coming from wheat allergy which I read sometime after is possible. In fact it's possible to be temporarily intolerant. Good luck with staying off the big M When I was a baby, I was lactose intolerant and my parents didn't know what was wrong with me for about half a year or so. Can't imagine the hell it must've been for them! Now, I drink milk occaisionally and I'm OK. Hope you'll like the soy milk, it sure is a different flavor Wow, what an allergy to have as a newborn. Good thing for modern medecine. Sometimes it's actually good for something huh. ^^ But if its an allergy and not lactose intolerace you have watch the ingredient lists on stuff you buy. They add milk to all sorts of things you wouldn't think they would like granola bars and spaghetti ohs. After my youngest was diagnosed we went grocery shopping . we shortly realized that it was a good thing he doesnt have a life threatening reaction to milk because its almost impossible to eliminate it entirely without making your own food. Oh I know how terrible that can be to try and buy food with a major ingredient that is not included. While I had eliminated wheat from my diet I had a real hard time buying food. That stuff is everywhere! My latest fave new food, or blend, is a drink I mix with my Silver Bullet. 1 banana, 1 orange, 3 tablespoons of fruit yogurt and about half a cup of water. Very simple and very very tastey. It's replaced urge for coffee. I have only one allergy; I blush and can't breath when I am close to girls. Not all, but the ones which take a certain perfume with stuff from a certain orchid. And it is not triggered by just one breath, but being close for 15 minutes or more. So being forced to leave an opera, theatre or something like this because of a nearby girl using this perfume is not nice. Now my wife pays the cards, saying she is a doc and she may be called out for emergencies so she wants a place close to the door (so way less people around=less risc) to disturb noone. The classmates of my oldest daughter know of my allergy so if they visit us they take another perfume. Soon our second will have to do the same procedure to her classmates I think. When I was 17 I always got an allergic reaction when having chemics at school. So dozens of allergy tests were done, the teacher even changed room when all failed. My allergy was noticed when the girl 2 places away was ill for 2 weeks. No allergy and as soon she was back the allergy was back too. My daughter actually likes my allergy, she takes my allergy-card and asks for perfume probes at shops. She claims that perfume contains are a secret(I would right away sign a law forcing to write all contents on the perfume flask) and she has to do try and error with the probes in case her classmates use a wrong perfume. So she has no need to buy perfume yet. What an interesting allergy. I can't imagine how you would have figured that out. That must have taken years. Well at least your allergy is being put to good use. Perfume for your daughter. ^^ Schot - Were you drinking pasteurized or non-pasteurized milk? If you were sticking to just one and it was affecting you, you may want to 'sample' the other and see what that does. I normally drink pasteurized but there are times when it's beyond my control. Like when I order coffee and the milk/sugar is added for me. I recently learned that the coffee shop I go to often uses 18%. That's quite a lot. In fact the coffee never even looks like coffee. More like cream with a bit of coffee in it, haha. Seems that my problem with milk is on and off. I recently had a coffee from the same coffee shop and had minimal reaction. I think I burped once but that's about it. So for now I'm still on the fence but when it comes to coffee I'll be careful not to have a lot of milk or cream. Link to comment
chattius 2,529 Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 (edited) With all these allergies, I am close to start a thread about gluten-free, milk-free, nut-free, vegan (are there any in the forum) recipes. We found this on a german site and use it whenever our kids bring a friend from school or sports to afternoon meal and they are not sure which allergy the person has, they only remember: some allergy. Buchweizen Pfannkuchen - buckwheat pancake 80 g Buchweizen (Mehl) - buckwheat flour 20 g Mehl (Vollsojamehl) - soya flour ½ TL Salz- salt- TL = Teelöffel = tea spoon 1 EL Zucker- sugar, EL is short for Esslöffel = eating spoon 200 ml Wasser- water 50 ml Öl-oil All is multiplied with 4 or 5 (recipe is for just 2 pancakes) and is mixed except the oil in the morning. Before putting it in the pan the oil is mixed in. (this depends on pan, mine is a good and old cast iron one, for aluminium you probably have to pour the oil in the pan and not add it to the mix). The result is something everyone can eat: buckwheat and soya have no gluten, no milk used, no egg used, no nuts used, ... Instead of the ananas we normally give sugar beet syrup or selfmade 'Quetschehoing (the way we speak it)' a sort of plum jam to it. Sadly last year was very bad for plums, so our reservers ae dwindling fast. This special plum jam can be kept for years and was used as a winter reserve when you couldn't leave village for months in old times. Edited February 1, 2011 by chattius Link to comment
emmabee11 2 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Owie I know how you feel, I am slightly intolorent to eggs, they don't effect me all the time but when they do I get the worst stomach aches and have to rush to the toilet, not fun at all I have the stupid cramps for a whole hour and kneeling at the edge of the toilet clutching my stomach hoping I won't throw up. Link to comment
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