Dissecting Survival Bonus and laying it all out.

[Schot 407]

Truth be told is that I have a Photoshop project that has been sitting around for a long time now. So long in fact that I've forgotten exactly how I was planning to present it, lol. It's a great bit of info though so rather than leaving it to waist I'm just gonna throw it up here. For some of you this won't be new but even for those who are aware of SB's effects this demonstration should give a new perspective. As far as I can tell, SB focuses on improving your base stats which can have a significant effect with regards to such modifiers as damage, defense, attack, spell resistance and so on. SacredWiki doesn't really have a page set up to explain SB which I'd like it to. Before I add to the wiki though I wanted to see if I could learn more from you all. SB also increases the oppponent's level. Making opponent's higher in level than your character is. A sort of means to add greater difficulty to the game it would seem. But questions arise from SB's effect. One of my own is if it is best to play in areas who's opponent's levels are capped closely to your characters own level? Is there greater success in power leveling off opponents of the same level? They will be easier which means faster killing.... But then do higher level opponents garner better drops? Two different objectives at the mercy of SB.

 

Ok, I've blah'ed on long enough. If you can think of some important points about SB by all means let us know.

 

 

Animated demonstration of SB. Comparison of a level 1 TG with 0% SB vs 80.2% SB. (Note also that World Discovered does increase from 0.1% to 1.1%. It is increasing Base Chance to find valuables.)

[gial 2]

Neat. I've never seen it quantified so clearly. I did notice the enemies were getting consistently higher than my character as I progressed through the levels. Made it to 33 and they were almost always 36-38. Did not catch my SB before I croaked, though. My first real progress to date. I'm beginning to like the game a little more.

[gogoblender 3,072]

As usualy, Schot, you manage to cast some light on game mechanics with your very distinct talents. Good job.I will honestly say that Survival Bonus is something that I almost never seem to really think about because it's something that happens to my toon no matters what...I figger for an HC toon, SB is akin to age, nothing I can really to do make it's quality change right?

 

However, I am enjoying what what you've pulled out of here... I never thought SB affected to much of our toon's make up!

 

Do you have any idea or a complete list perhaps of everything that is being affected?

 

And...is SB directly changing all of the numbers, or maybe having indirect effects on some?

 

 

gogo

[Schot 407]

From my perspective I never think in terms of application. My first thoughts are almost always, "How does it work and what is it doing?". It isn't really in my nature to first think, "How can I use this to my advantage?". I guess that's what you're for gogo.

 

Though Ascaron has done something to SB which is very unique in Sacred 2 vs. S1. You can manipulate SB via the item modifier Sacred 2:Faster Increase of Survival Bonus. Where the mod +X to all skills exists you could look to Faster Increase of Survival Bonus for a relative mod for Attributes.

[Erling 3]

I cant help it.. the first thing I think is how did you get 80% sb in level 1?

 

and awsome!

[Schot 407]

Hehe Erling. Well I'd rather not get into that in this topic but I will say this. SB increases only while you are in battle. If you want more juicy details I'll be happy to tell you when next I see you in game. Or if you happen to see another darkie I'm sure they could tell you.

 

Here's bit more info for us to work with.

 

Since we're increasing base stats I guess SB might be seen as the Attributes version of "+ to all Skills" since SB affects all Attributes. This is fairly significant because we're increasing the base of which most in game item modifiers apply their benefits too. So the higher your SB is the greater the affect of modifiers on your character. With that in mind it might be ideal to find ways to increase SB quickly such as the item modifier Faster Increase of Survival Bonus. A perfect example of the modifier can be seen on the Unique Item Officer's Saber. Would be cool to see the difference bettween 0.1% and 80% SB on a high level character. The effect must be huge and I gather that a lot of SC players can comment on the distinct loss of damage when they die.

 

 

 

I was dreading the thought of making an animated demo of the Attributes and I think that may have been why I never started this topic sooner. I hadn't made the attributes version. I spent a ton of time today putting one together. This one is from an earlier version of the test case TG. At 71.7% SB it appears as though stats are being increased by approx. 20%.

 

Comparison of a level 1 TG with 0% SB vs 71.7% SB

 

[Cygnus 0]

very nice work here Schot I do think it is hard to see the full impact on a level 1 charatcer though..values are rather low. I am assuming Survival bonus ends up being some percentage modifier, so much less evident on lower numbered stats. I am also curious how Survival Bonus modified fits into the order of operations...does it only modify base stats? or does it comeb after your states are modified by gear and combat arts?

Edited March 2, 2009 by Cygnus

[Scleameth 19]

Great work Schot! I might be commenting a little late here, but take some comfort in the fact that your hard work did not go by unnoticed!

 

I've not played enough with any toon to reach high level SB, but I'm wondering if SB has the same effect at high levels (thinking 70%+) in Sacred 2 as it had in S1 where you were allowed that split second at zero health to smack space bar silly and take a deep sigh of relief rather than starting a maggot party?

[locolagarto 15]

Great work Schot! I might be commenting a little late here, but take some comfort in the fact that your hard work did not go by unnoticed!

 

I've not played enough with any toon to reach high level SB, but I'm wondering if SB has the same effect at high levels (thinking 70%+) in Sacred 2 as it had in S1 where you were allowed that split second at zero health to smack space bar silly and take a deep sigh of relief rather than starting a maggot party?

 

Not so much, lag may be an issue in closed net/open net that just adds that split second of delay before your space bar registers. While mounted, however the mount will die just before you do(saving your life if your fast on the space bar), adding the split moment of "thank god I am still alive!"

[Etherian 76]

dang Schot, you waist no time getting to the juicy *mysterious* side of the game mechanics.

 

question: Has there been sufficient testing as to what the exact numbers are based on per level. Meaning, SB will increase base modifiers X% or XX% per character level?

 

If I am pondering this correctly? The built in modifier SB could be used as a base skill enhancer with per character level.

 

Also, if and when SB lvls X% with character level. What else changes besides base character modifiers? I'm thinking, items dropped, added experience per kill, etc.

 

Does SB effect virtualy every aspect of the game mechanics?

 

I remain, very curious

[Ryanrocker 200]

dang Schot, you waist no time getting to the juicy *mysterious* side of the game mechanics.

 

question: Has there been sufficient testing as to what the exact numbers are based on per level. Meaning, SB will increase base modifiers X% or XX% per character level?

 

If I am pondering this correctly? The built in modifier SB could be used as a base skill enhancer with per character level.

 

Also, if and when SB lvls X% with character level. What else changes besides base character modifiers? I'm thinking, items dropped, added experience per kill, etc.

 

Does SB effect virtualy every aspect of the game mechanics?

 

I remain, very curious

 

From watching the animation (very hypotizing I might add ) it appears everything besides armor increases.

[Schot 407]

Great work Schot! I might be commenting a little late here, but take some comfort in the fact that your hard work did not go by unnoticed!

 

I've not played enough with any toon to reach high level SB, but I'm wondering if SB has the same effect at high levels (thinking 70%+) in Sacred 2 as it had in S1 where you were allowed that split second at zero health to smack space bar silly and take a deep sigh of relief rather than starting a maggot party?

 

Not so much, lag may be an issue in closed net/open net that just adds that split second of delay before your space bar registers. While mounted, however the mount will die just before you do(saving your life if your fast on the space bar), adding the split moment of "thank god I am still alive!"

 

Thanx Scleameth! As loco suggests the only way to get that effect in Sacred 2 is with the help of some random lag. But I know what you're asking about. In Sacred Underworld we had true Survival Bonus in that upon receiving a final killing blow from an enemy there was a chance that the character would only get stunned with those Tweety birds around it's head for a few secs. During that stun time all enemies would "de-aggro" and wander off. Once the stun passed the character would flash on and off graphically for several more seconds and we would gain full control of our character again. The flashing meant that we would not yet aggro any enemies. This would give us a quick window of time to take several health potions and then get the heck outta there.

It was a really cool feature in S1 that we're missing in Sacred 2. Added a great deal of excitement to the game.

 

 

dang Schot, you waist no time getting to the juicy *mysterious* side of the game mechanics.

 

question: Has there been sufficient testing as to what the exact numbers are based on per level. Meaning, SB will increase base modifiers X% or XX% per character level?

 

If I am pondering this correctly? The built in modifier SB could be used as a base skill enhancer with per character level.

 

Also, if and when SB lvls X% with character level. What else changes besides base character modifiers? I'm thinking, items dropped, added experience per kill, etc.

 

Does SB effect virtualy every aspect of the game mechanics?

 

I remain, very curious

 

No sufficient testing that I'm aware of Etherian and you've got the right idea with SB improving base stats. Adding true base to our existing base stats is tends to be hard to come by. Character level though is not a property that SB is dependent on. SB increases strictly based on "in battle" time. To be precise; your SB will increase at a set rate while you are being attacked by an enemy. Regarding SB and drops the answer is yes. The devs have said so themsleves and not only that but SB is a direct variable for the MF(Magic Find) equation in Sacred Underworld. So it's likely that SB is also part of Sacred 2's drop chance equation.

 

It certainly does effect a lot! Maybe not time of day. ^^

 

dang Schot, you waist no time getting to the juicy *mysterious* side of the game mechanics.

 

question: Has there been sufficient testing as to what the exact numbers are based on per level. Meaning, SB will increase base modifiers X% or XX% per character level?

 

If I am pondering this correctly? The built in modifier SB could be used as a base skill enhancer with per character level.

 

Also, if and when SB lvls X% with character level. What else changes besides base character modifiers? I'm thinking, items dropped, added experience per kill, etc.

 

Does SB effect virtualy every aspect of the game mechanics?

 

I remain, very curious

 

From watching the animation (very hypotizing I might add ) it appears everything besides armor increases.

 

Ah you know I forgot about that. Though I wonder if it does but not showing because the character I used only had 3 armor. Maybe too small as base for any change to show?

[Llama8 8]

Ah you know I forgot about that. Though I wonder if it does but not showing because the character I used only had 3 armor. Maybe too small as base for any change to show?

Or that armour isn't affected by any of the attributes & that's what SB increases.

[philr1 0]

This is a great topic because I find it hard to understand the Survival Bonus. Perhaps someone can help me with this please?

 

I am currently an Inquisiter on silver difficulty attempting a complete quest run and visiting everywhere on the map. I am currently in the Orc realm and have not died yet (well I did against The Banshee but just quit to dashboard, 360 version LOL). When I was in Elf realm, the enemy would level up with me and it got to the stage they were 6-7 levels higher than me. This continued until I got to level 46. Then I started to notice that the enemy would not even level up with me at all so I was getting closer and closer to their level.

 

I am now level 57 in the Orc realm with a survival bonus of 90.3% yet the enemies are either the same as me or one level BELOW me. How can this be? Surely they should be at least 8 levels higher than me.

 

My question is this :- Is there a level cap for each area for each difficulty which will stop the enemy levelling up higher regardless of your survival bonus?

 

I just don't understand this at all. The Elf realm, which is supposed to be the easiest of them all was pretty difficult towards the end because the enemy was 7 levels higher than me.

 

Help!

[Llama8 8]

I am currently an Inquisiter on silver difficulty attempting a complete quest run and visiting everywhere on the map. I am currently in the Orc realm and have not died yet (well I did against The Banshee but just quit to dashboard, 360 version LOL). When I was in Elf realm, the enemy would level up with me and it got to the stage they were 6-7 levels higher than me.

Yup, that's one of the effects of SB.

 

This continued until I got to level 46. Then I started to notice that the enemy would not even level up with me at all so I was getting closer and closer to their level.

 

I am now level 57 in the Orc realm with a survival bonus of 90.3% yet the enemies are either the same as me or one level BELOW me. How can this be? Surely they should be at least 8 levels higher than me.

 

My question is this :- Is there a level cap for each area for each difficulty which will stop the enemy levelling up higher regardless of your survival bonus?

Yes, each area has a min & max monster level cap & the monsters will only spawn within those bounds, regardless of player level or SB. So if you take a level 1 char into Niobium the monsters around Sloeford are level ~110 (or thereabouts) & if you took a level 200 char into Bronze (if that were possible) the monsters in the final area wouldn't be higher than ~38.

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Enemy_Levels

[Stormwing 40]

Great topic, really. Just stumbled into it recently, and I couldn't believe my eyes, when I read through all that stuff.

Will be sure to avoid any deaths in the future more than ever.

[locolagarto 15]

Survival Bonus Here is a little extra reading from the wiki.

[Scleameth 19]

It was a really cool feature in S1 that we're missing in Sacred 2. Added a great deal of excitement to the game.

 

Dangit - well I had a few close escapes so far. Still getting used to the console setup... My first fight against the White Griffon had a couple of moments where I seemed to pop a few undead death potions, xp potions and even activated my god power once Anything as long as the health bar stayed above absolute zero! One thing about playing on the pc, was that my thumb always rested on space bar...

Another thing I can't do on the console (dunno about Sacred 2 in general) is stare at a road sign for 48hrs while my SB ticks over....

[Schot 407]

lol Scleameth. I'm imaging you pushing every possible button and lighting up like a Christmas Tree in an attempt to fend off the Griffin. That Griffin can be a real pain I tell yah, haha.

 

Although reading signs may not improve SB anymore you could always head into a Bronze server and let a Sloeford Wolf gnaw on your ankle for a while. ^^

 

 

Cheers for the linkage loco. It's high time that wiki page became a part of this convo.

[Scleameth 19]

Well, I dunno if posting in this thread turned out to be a curse, but my Christmas tree (lol Schot) seraphim just bit the dust with a final swig of an undead death potion! darnit! I just did not have the kahoonas to go and delete her... so she's still prancing around Ancaria as if nothing happend. I still managed to get 3 set item drops (2 seraphim, 1 HE) with SB below 20%

[philr1 0]

I am currently an Inquisiter on silver difficulty attempting a complete quest run and visiting everywhere on the map. I am currently in the Orc realm and have not died yet (well I did against The Banshee but just quit to dashboard, 360 version LOL). When I was in Elf realm, the enemy would level up with me and it got to the stage they were 6-7 levels higher than me.

Yup, that's one of the effects of SB.

 

This continued until I got to level 46. Then I started to notice that the enemy would not even level up with me at all so I was getting closer and closer to their level.

 

I am now level 57 in the Orc realm with a survival bonus of 90.3% yet the enemies are either the same as me or one level BELOW me. How can this be? Surely they should be at least 8 levels higher than me.

 

My question is this :- Is there a level cap for each area for each difficulty which will stop the enemy levelling up higher regardless of your survival bonus?

Yes, each area has a min & max monster level cap & the monsters will only spawn within those bounds, regardless of player level or SB. So if you take a level 1 char into Niobium the monsters around Sloeford are level ~110 (or thereabouts) & if you took a level 200 char into Bronze (if that were possible) the monsters in the final area wouldn't be higher than ~38.

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Enemy_Levels

 

Llama8 you have just made my day! Now I can see exactly what to aim for so I will stop mob killing for now and only kill if it is essential until I hit Swamp Realm as that is level 65. I am currently level 60 and just got to Seraphim Island and am already 2 levels higher than everything else. I suppose killing level 58 creatures will take me ages to level up though and it is hardly a big place is it? There is one quest I have feared attempting again since I took a Gold Shadow Warrior there. It's an arena based quest and you have to kill demons or something. At least I won't die straightaway so am hoping to take my SB all the way up to 99.9%

 

Tell me Llama8, I have not got pc version, is there a mod to take out the level cap? As I'm doing a complete quest run and visiting everywhere on the map, it is not much of a challenge now and surely the whole point in Sacred 2 is exploration? I would consider getting Sacred 2 on pc for this feature alone.

 

Thanks very much for the link though, I have printed it out and it will be most useful. One thing I have noticed Llama8 is when you go into caves in the Orc Realm, the level cap is not level 57 but level 58. For some reason caves appear to have higher levelled creatures compared to overground. Have you noticed that before? EDIT : just read on the wiki link you kindly put here that the caves are +1 to the level cap in some areas. I should really read all of the link before posting LOL.

Edited July 27, 2010 by philr1

[Llama8 8]

Tell me Llama8, I have not got pc version, is there a mod to take out the level cap? As I'm doing a complete quest run and visiting everywhere on the map, it is not much of a challenge now and surely the whole point in Sacred 2 is exploration? I would consider getting Sacred 2 on pc for this feature alone.

 

Not per se, no, though someone may be able to make one by changing the level caps for each region (though I'm not sure which file it's in).

[locolagarto 15]

My advice if your looking to explore the map and side quests completely, and you want a challenge along the way, advance to gold, or platinum then try again. you won't out level your monsters so quickly.

[philr1 0]

My advice if your looking to explore the map and side quests completely, and you want a challenge along the way, advance to gold, or platinum then try again. you won't out level your monsters so quickly.

 

That is sound advice Locolagerto So if I rushed through the story and character quest only until I hit Gold, would it be harder to reach the level cap in each area then? I have already thought about what character to play as next - High Elf. I've seen you write loads about your experiences with High Elf Locolagerto plus I've got an amazing chest set item for her. It's armour rating is 350 at level 50 yet the best chest piece I have got for my Inquisiter is 171 at level 60! I think the chest piece has 'Of Time' at the end but cannot remember the first part. Why is it so good? Not even the Shadow Warrior has armour that good, not that I found any decent pieces for him anyway.

 

I just wish the map would not stay highlighted where you have been when you get to higher difficulty levels because it is hard to work out what quests you have done especially in towns where the whole town is lit up like a Christmas tree LOL. I suppose if I didn't do any quests then I would know then to do them all LOL. Just finished the Seraphim Island, Locolagerto and on my way to find the dragon. It's took me 130 hours to get there and am currently level 61! Can't wait to find the Halls of Ascaron when I find the switch to open it up later on. And the dinosaur print you mentioned in another topic LOL.