How to Become a Demi-God in Sacred 2

[locolagarto 18]

Im trying to find Soldats original post because I wanna see that. This look like a great Idea for when I wanna make a Temple Guardian because I always fail on him well I only played him once for my first character but still he seems pretty hard and all the other characters ill find a great build here on the forums. Nice write up!

 

 

 

-Shadow.

 

Guide to Damage Mitigation [DM] - By soldats

[chattius 2,723]

In german we have the saying: Ein Bild sagt mehr wie tausend Worte = One picture says more than thousand words. So here a quick and dirty graph of how much damage mitigation is done by armour. The graph is for niob, wolf which does 244 damage in last kill window.

 

 

You need 1750 armour at least to have the damage reduced in this case. Below 1750 armour you suffer from viulnerability, the received damage is bigger than the damage dealt.

 

So at 0 armour you have more than 200% vulnerability, getting neutral at 1750 armour and approaching 100% mitigation if the armour moves to infinity.

 

EDIT:

In lack of a good english word I used mitigation. But this mitigation is not the damage mitigation you find on items and spells. It is a different effect and doesn't stack with the 'damage mitigation'. Also it isn't lowered by ancient magic mastery?

Edited July 26, 2010 by chattius

[gogoblender 3,444]

One of the most popular guides at Darkmatters. Ported to SacredWiki.

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacre...God_in_Sacred_2

 

Thanks again Dobri

 

 

gogo

[locolagarto 18]

In german we have the saying: Ein Bild sagt mehr wie tausend Worte = One picture says more than thousand words. So here a quick and dirty graph of how much damage mitigation is done by armour. The graph is for niob, wolf which does 244 damage in last kill window.

 

 

You need 1750 armour at least to have the damage reduced in this case. Below 1750 armour you suffer from viulnerability, the received damage is bigger than the damage dealt.

 

So at 0 armour you have more than 200% vulnerability, getting neutral at 1750 armour and approaching 100% mitigation if the armour moves to infinity.

 

Nicely done Chattius!

 

Does this only apply to a niob wolf or do the numbers relate?

[claudius 104]

This also explains why a 7ish% chance to disregard armor is attractive when you could have thrown in +40% all channel damage or + skills or + CA

 

Its all coming clear

 

Now I just have to find out if disregard armor affects spell combat arts or just weapon..

Edited July 22, 2010 by claudius

[chattius 2,723]

The functions look similiar for other enemies/difficulties. The general function has 2 unknowns. So by testing 2 different armour values at same damage/level/difficulty you can find out these unknowns to plot the function for other beasts/difficulty/damage combinations.

 

The next interesting function would be: fixed difficulty, fixed monster and player level, but fighting diffrent beasts to get different damage numbers. This way we could get a function showing the armour which is needed at a given damage to have no mitigation.

[chattius 2,723]

I am more and more the opinion that the tooltipp for monster damage shows the damage the monster would do in silver. For the other difficulties this damage seems to be multiplied with a constant.

Planing to try to do a general formula on my next train voyage to Hamburg.

Edited August 17, 2010 by chattius

[chattius 2,723]

The unified field theory

Special case: weapon and armour particles

 

Llama8 was quite sure that the formula:

 

D_r = D_d * (D_d / (D_d+R)) would be valid.

 

D_r stands for damage received, D_d stands for damage dealt and R for the resistance against the damage type. However in higher difficulties there was a phenomena that you received more damage than the tooltipp of last monster killed was showing. So the formula couldn't be true for all difficulties. He said that perhaps the formula would be multiplied with a damage modifier for higher difficulties. However this couldn't be, if the damage modifier was made fitting for 0 resistance it wasn't matching with the results for fixed point armour.

 

So here is hopefully a general formula:

 

D_r = M_s*D_d * (D_d / (D_d+(R/M_s)))

 

or other writing

 

D_r = M_s*D_d * (M_s*D_d / (M_s*D_d+R))

 

or

 

D_r = D_m * (D_m / (D_m+R))

 

M_s would be a modifier depending on difficulty (s for Schwierigkeitsgrad) and D_m would be damage dealt times this multiplier. I have no balance.txt on this netbook, but I think the number for niob was 3350. So M_niob would be 3.35. This fits very good to the 3.3214 = 744/224 we got by our experiments.

 

The difference to the old formula from Llama8 is:

Before applying resistances you have to divide them by the difficulty_modifier. Then you multiply the damage you get when applying Llama8's formula with the same damage_multiplier.

Or you simpy multiply all appearances of damage dealt with the modifier for the difficulty.

 

If a significant number of players can confirm the above formula we could put it in wiki, adding the modifiers from balance.txt.

The current wiki entry:

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Damage

The only change needed to wiki would be to add that damage_dealt is damage_dealt times a modifier for higher difficulties.

 

Interpretation of the results

If you compare silver and niob difficulty, the enemy will do more than 3 times the damage shown in its tooltipp. On the other hand your resistances are limited to less than a third. (This is best shown by the first formula)

Hope some native english speaker describes the effect in an easy understandable way.

 

 

Edit: added the other writings to get closer to the old formula. The graphs are still valid and seem to fit the above formulas.

Edited August 17, 2010 by chattius

[chattius 2,723]

The formula seems to be right. I did some maths and found out that the formula for what I called fix point armour is:

 

R_FPA = (M_s²-M_s)*D_d

 

For niob M_S is 3.35. So R_FPA = 7.8725*D_d. In the example used to find the fpa we had 224 damage and an esteimated FPA of 1750. using the formula we get an FPA of 1767, close enough.

 

Short:

In niob you need 8 times the damage shown in enemy tooltipp as resistance to receive less than the shown damage. If an enemy reads 10000 damage in niob in last kill tooltipp it will do MORE than 10000 damage if you have below 78725 resistance against the damage type.

Edited August 18, 2010 by chattius

[Llama8 11]

So Chattius, the modifier for each difficulties is applied to both player resistance (reducing it) & monster damage (increasing it)? That's harsh!

[chattius 2,723]

Well instead multiplying the damage after the damage/resistance calculation they multiplied it before. So a small transformation shows that this would be the same as multiplying after the damage/resistance calculation, but using a reduced resistance in the calculation.

 

I don't know if it was planed this way.

[Llama8 11]

Ok, that makes sense.

 

I don't know if it was planed this way.

Probably, since it's easier to monkey about with the monsters' stats than the player's stats.

[chattius 2,723]

Another number: to reduce a damage of 1000 down to 250 you need 3000 resistance in silver, but 42210 in niob. That is a factor of 14.

Outch

Just imagine 42210 for non physical damage, hard to get.

[Groosum 1]

Just an opinion but I reckon this should be a pinned subject as would help a lot of New and Old players alike.

[Dobri 55]

I second that, as chattius' work is downright exceptional. My writeup pales in comparison to what he had managed to uncover, and with precise formulas as well.

 

However, not long ago, our good admin chum gogoblender stated that there are plenty of stickied threads already and if we keep on putting more and more, the first page of posts will be filled with stickies and there will be no room for regular posts - and I tend to agree with him. This topic will always be one of the first ones because everyone is interested in improving their characters the right way, so I would not worry

[Llama8 11]

You could always have a single stickied thread with links to "important" threads that would otherwise be stickied.

[r00ster 2]

I would just like to say;

 

Chattius, this work is freakin' awesome!

I absolutely love this.

 

My questions;

 

So, if we need roughly 8x the armor value, this would still make a high elf with crystal skin, or dryad with ancient bark okay for physical resistance in niob?

In my test chars, I have gotten both to around 70000 physical armor.

 

This totally explains the massive hits, and sometimes deadly hits from some bosses (I expect criticals on their already extreme damage in niob).

 

Lastly, how does the 'mitigation' (the type available on darwargons amulet) fit into this for reduction?

How does the skill 'toughness' factor in? I know in the beta it was bugged, and reduced damage too much, untill a certain skill level, then it did nothing at all for damage reduction... this was fixed a while ago, so am wondering....

 

I.e. I have a test Shadow Warrior level 200 in niob, his Grim Resillience buff grants him 40% physical mitigation on it's own, is this, combined with his actual armor values enough to hold the damage back?

 

Your numbers and formulas are amazing,

 

Cheers,

Edited August 20, 2010 by r00ster

[nyctasia 0]

Dobri

"Stacked" damage mitigation trait means that 2 types of damage mitigation traits have been stacked in one item, thus providing substantially higher Damage mitigation output. This could mean all channel + all channel and all channel + one channel (usually physical) damage mitigation.

 

I have only seen all channel + physical mitigation. Do you have a picture of such and item with stacked mitigation on all channels?

 

Also, I have read somewhere around here about trading between spawning island and something that sounded as a town in the swamp region. Why is that a good trading spot? And is it stabile? Cause in my games, teleporting from one place to another for a few times is ok, but after that I start missing traders/runemasters/smithers (as their character are missing alltogeter), or traders with only a few items (no armors or no weapons) in their inventory.

[Dobri 55]

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=12139

 

This is the thread you need I have based this entire writeup on this. It will take a long time to see if this still works in Ice & Blood thanks to the big bargaining nerf we got - this is why I think you see all channel + single channel DM, as it's much easier to obtain. I remember doing this in S2FA with over 4x Bargaining.

[nyctasia 0]

Thank you.

I am playing Sacred 2 2.43 and as soon as I get an empty slot I'll get the trader too. Still, I was expecting 30% damage mitigation from the description of stacked multichannel (since I saw 12-13 percent mitigation on platinium items lv 115).

 

Later edit.

I got an armor at level 75 in platinium. This one is interesting because it features 4 bonuses.

1. Stun reflect

2. Damage mitigation

3. Damage mitigation

4. Selling price

 

The difference between 2 and 3 is that 2 is a fixed bonus, while 3 is a bonus determined by armor lore. There are 2 different bonuses, even if they are bonus for the same thing.

Edited December 20, 2010 by nyctasia

[Hooyaah 3,121]

 

There is now an easier and more convenient way to achieve full damage mitigation for any player character by "wearing" or forging into any weapons, shields, and armor of your choice a developer item that I discovered hidden within the blueprint file. I forced it to drop at regular levels and submitted the chest file for download here. It is a pendant; it also greatly boosts combat art range to truly impressive levels. Also, as an alternative for the High Elf to prevent her untimely demise, there is a relatively simple way to modify C.S. so that she can remain undetected, whether casting or striking with melee weapons. More information may be obtained in this thread: Cascading Shroud As A Permanent Buff. It is important to note that the buff should be modified early on or as soon as you plan to employ it with full efficacy, by selecting "Faint" and "Inconspicuous." It is suggested that it be mastered before one expects full "invisibility" at high levels and that an appropriate quantity of runes are consumed. Wild animals, particularly cats and other foes with high perception may detect the High Elf if C.S. is not attended to properly.

 

 

 

[gogoblender 3,444]

Wild animals, particularly cats and other foes with high perception may detect the High Elf if C.S. is not attended to properly.

 

 

 

 

Wow...I didnt know the devs specced monsters with such granularity... amazing info!!

 

 

gogo

[Hooyaah 3,121]

 

Wild animals, particularly cats and other foes with high perception may detect the High Elf if C.S. is not attended to properly.

 

 

 

 

Wow...I didnt know the devs specced monsters with such granularity... amazing info!

 

 

gogo

 

Yes, and this is especially so if one's character is well below the opponents in the region. For example, if a High Elf journeyed into a jungle in Niob and she was at, let's say level 60, the cats would see her if either she hadn't consumed sufficient runes or if she was not employing the proper enhancements of Faint and Inconspicuous.

[chattius 2,723]

Snifffffffffffffffff, all the hard work and maths I did about armour are vanished from the german and international sacred forum.

[Flix 5,217]

Snifffffffffffffffff, all the hard work and maths I did about armour are vanished from the german and international sacred forum.

 

It hasn't vanished from the Wiki though. I saved all that stuff.

 

====================================

Players who have 0 Armor protection against a damage type will actually have the damage against them multiplied '''above''' the stated amount.

The graph below shows how incoming damage is reduced by armor. Tests were done by people from the German Sacred forum, allowing a wolf to hit the player in Niobium, while varying the player armor. The wolf was doing 244 physical damage shown in last kill. It turned out that at least 1750 armor was needed to suffer no penalty. Below 1750 armour the character actually received '''more''' damage than the wolf was doing, above 1750 armour the damage was reduced. From these tests, Chattius of Darkmatters calculated a formula and plotted a damage vs. armor function:

 

 

The graph depends on damage, level and difficulty. Its curve is always the same, but the scales on the axis differ.

The player receives more than three times the dealt damage if he has no armor versus the incoming damage-type. Therefore it becomes very important to have at least some amount of armor value for each of the five damage types.

====================================

I added all this info to the Damage vs. Armor article. Though it actually ended up being superseded by a lot of calculations by Mibbs who submitted some more precise charts and formulae a few years ago.