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Keen game dev for Sacred 3 apologizes and offers his game key


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#21 gogoblender

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Posted 23 August 2014 - 07:33 AM

 

8.) Deep Silver decides to go full Stealth Mode. Releases no more information on Sacred 3 until it's released. 

More than anything, this was the part that P'd me off the most.  Sacred universe is a strong community.  It's been like that since the beginning and even with years of no news about sacred 3, there was still an active community here, which kept up with the wiki which has become massive!

Communities need feed back, dialogue.. when Deep Silver went this route it hurt a lot of people 

 

:cry:

 

gogo

In truth.... The more I think about it... The less I think Deep Silver really gives a flying fig about the Sacred franchise. 

 

Consider:

 

1.) Games have a shelf life and as such, they are only popular for just so long. People play the game get sick of it and move on.

2.) They figured (incorrectly) that the Sacred franchise was dead. 

3.) The death of Ascaron, and Deep Silver's thumb twiddling, made sure that, by conventional wisdom, Sacred was dead.

 

 

And yet it isn't. 

 

So... Deep Silver chose to not communicate with the communities out there that are (like us) keeping the faith alive.

 

And this tells me one thing...

 

Deep Silver doesn't care about Sacred any more. It's as if they're trying to drive the proverbial stake thru the heart of the franchise. 

If anything, the backlash from this game has driven UnBended and given it an enormous head of steam. Donations jumped, the fans are getting their dialogue with the Devs, and...we got a Crypt!

 

:dance:

 

gogo



#22 Shadeling

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Posted 28 August 2014 - 11:11 PM

in all fairness, I think their marketing was top notch from their point of view. They managed to get plenty preorders without ever releasing any gameplay footage. I think they wont run in the red with this game. mainly because of the preorders and the sales from those who are into this type of game.

 

they will loose a lot of their fanbase tho so here's hoping it will bite em in the ass later :P

 

not that I agree with what they did to the franchise. its an abomination that should not have been called sacred. but that discussion has been done ;)

 

as for the post from the dev.

I think he's genuine, he's probably a gamer like most devs and really somewhat shocked by all the negativity..

 

but ive been fooled before. 

Top notch?  Uh no. 

 

I've been keeping an eye on the Steam Sacred 3 forums a couple months before it even launched, a launch btw,  that happened before its official launch date in order to screw over as many pre-ordered gamers as possible so they have no recourse for a refund and get those sales before the ending of the review embargo would clue gamers into the fact the game truly sucked.

 

Even the first day I checked out the Steam forums it was lit up with posts about how Sacred 3 was NOT Sacred.  I actually felt bad for Keen at that moment because the deserved vitriol was relentless. These weren't dumb gamer sheep Deep Silver were counting on to mindlessly pre-order their terrible game. The voice of the righteous outrage definitely drowned out anything else on that forum. And perhaps that's what inspired DS to launch the game early, wouldn't put it past them.

 

It wasn't with a small amount of satisfaction that I watch Sacred 3 quickly sink on the top sellers list, even with full on Steam advertising support on the front page.  And that junior developer post helped so much in shedding light on the problem.  Normally I would immediately dismiss that kind of post on Steam but it came off as legit to me, as I said in that thread, and I guess it was cleared by Gamespot who made it a news piece on their site.

 

That alone should tell you that their marketing strategy was not 'Top Notch'.  If front page Steam advertising can't help you, well, 'nuff said.  It wasn't even a week when Sacred 3 was completely off of Top Sellers list and at the same time Divinity: Original Sin which was released a full month before was still sitting happily on the first page, often jockeying for positionfor #1 at the same time.

 

So yeah, one would hope that heads were rolling at Deep Silver for allowing their marketing execs to moonlight as game developers (because, ya know, it's so easy anyone can make a stupid game) and besmirching its name because now the common impression about DS is that's its the new EA.

 

That's not Top Notch marketing in my opinion.   That's near criminal business practices that got its just desserts.

 

Edit: I haz gramr and I spel gud.


Edited by Shadeling, 28 August 2014 - 11:27 PM.


#23 wolfie2kX

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:50 AM

I maybe wouldn't quite go so far as to say "criminal" but perhaps dishonest... Douchey, for sure. 

 

I doubt that DS would do anything that would blatantly violate the various laws out there. That wouldn't be a good thing if they had to go to jail for something as lame as that.

 

It's not exactly fraud. They delivered a game - OK. A sucky game, but a game, never the less. That it didn't live up to the franchise's legacy, well, it's not written anywhere they HAD to do so. They just had to deliver a product - which they actually did.


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#24 Shadeling

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Posted 29 August 2014 - 12:56 AM

Oh I know, that's what I meant by 'near criminal' because what they did had nothing to do with whether or not their CUSTOMERS had a good experience but with how best they could dupe them into spending money on something that had nothing to do with the franchise but was using the Sacred name alone to sell games. 

 

Definitely near criminal, nothing impressive about it. They don't care about giving their paying customers a good experience, they only care about getting the sales for their shareholders and their quarterly statement. It's the fundamental flaw in how publishers should be playing no role at all in game development because their ultimate goal has nothing to do with the quality of their fans experience.



#25 gogoblender

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 02:13 PM

 

Deep Silver doesn't care about Sacred any more. It's as if they're trying to drive the proverbial stake thru the heart of the franchise. 

And this scares me

I mean...what if they try to make a Sacred 4?

 

:blink:

 

gogo



#26 wolfie2kX

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 04:32 PM

And this scares me

I mean...what if they try to make a Sacred 4?

 

:blink:

 

gogo

 

Somehow, I seriously doubt they will. 

 

1.) Sacred 3 sucked.

2.) Sacred 3 didn't make them any money.

 

Ergo, there's NO justification for them to make a Sacred 4


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#27 AngelShade

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Posted 30 August 2014 - 06:49 PM

What if they hire the unbended team to do sacred 4 ?



#28 Yoshio

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 02:51 AM

I guess, I mean I obviously cannot speak for them, that is unlikely to happen as those guys are former Sacred devs and therefore I don't think that they are interested in working together with DS, especially after what they have done to Sacred!



#29 Knuckles

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 07:33 AM

Deep Silver better stay far far away from Unbended :)

 

Sacred is dead, long live Unbended



#30 Grigoroi

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 08:52 AM

I would say the pushed up release date would have been to not try to compete with the consoles' releases of diablow-3. They would have known the only sales they would have made on the first day would have been people after the Name and Legacy of sacred.

 

Then after that first day, the reviews would have sunk any potential for casual buyers' sales. Also by releasing before diablow-ros, they get extra sales potential from people hoping to get something worth getting to tide them over. ... he said while holding up a hand guiltily.

 

I've since gotten diablow-3 and now really cannot justify sacred-3 as having been released as anything more than a Marketplace/Arcade download game for about $15.



#31 wolfie2kX

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Posted 31 August 2014 - 08:58 PM

I'd say the Diablo 3 release on consoles was a convenient coincidence... 

 

Then again, after watching WAAAAAAY too many cop shows, there's no such thing as a coincidence.. 

 

I'm fairly certain that Blizzard made the release date for D3 on Console known early enough - and DS no doubt announced their release to be about the same time - so they could pull this sort of stunt. 


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#32 Shadeling

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Posted 01 September 2014 - 09:39 PM

And this scares me

I mean...what if they try to make a Sacred 4?

 

:blink:

 

gogo

 

Somehow, I seriously doubt they will. 

 

1.) Sacred 3 sucked.

2.) Sacred 3 didn't make them any money.

 

Ergo, there's NO justification for them to make a Sacred 4

Supposedly, the working title of Sacred 3 had been Sacred: Citadel 2 during development but the marketing department decided to change it to Sacred 3.   The junior developer also made it sound like Keen had no say in how the game would be developed and could only change superficial things within the given framework without having it to be approved.

 

So what does this say? That DS realized mid development that the game their marketing execs designed actually sucked and the only way they could sell enough units to make a profit was to dupe as many fans as they could into buying it?  Or....or....

 

...I'm trying really,  really hard to think of a counter argument but I just keep drawing a blank. So much for my attempts at being objective. :P

 

The saddest part about this though is that if my own experience in the corporate environment means anything, the person who actually made the most pertinent decisions in regards to the development of Sacred 3 that caused it to fail will not be held accountable, it'll be some other low ranking employee down the chain who had been just following orders that will be fired as the scapegoat. 

 

Before this all happened with Sacred 3, I had been so sure the douche Bernd was at fault for the debacle of X-Rebirth and what a huge middle finger that had been to all their long time fans, especially with his backhanded apologies after the fact. Now, I'm not so sure.   Well, I still think he's a douche but the release of X-Rebirth has some eerie similarities to Sacred 3, so now I think DS very likely played a major role there too.

 

Edit: I do gramr gud!


Edited by Shadeling, 01 September 2014 - 10:19 PM.


#33 Saraphima

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Posted 04 September 2014 - 08:26 PM

Here is my two cents to this. The devs or whoever did a survey and asked what people wanted in the game the most. They got there feedback and made what people wanted. The thing though is most of those people who responded probably never played a second of sacred to begin with. They didn't listen to a single peep of a true player of sacred.

The damage is done to the franchise and the real player base of it. The ONLY fix is to make sacred 4 the right way of which should have been sacred 3.

As for me I don't like it as it seems to play to much off of LoL and the others instead of what makes sacred, well sacred. The one thing I did like is they kept the seraphim and black seraphim in the mix.



#34 SX255

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 07:05 AM

he damage is done to the franchise and the real player base of it. The ONLY fix is to make sacred 4 the right way of which should have been sacred 3.

 

Its not so easy to do. Sacred 4 would not only need to be a proper ARPG, but it will have a titanic task of undoing the damages from Sacred 3. The lore has to be meticulously rigged to include the blasted nightmare that it is, and there is no way around it... without being a cheap copout...

If S4 takes place before S3 - you need to set up the story to include nods to that future.

If S4 takes place after S3 - there need to be scars on the world.

If S4 takes place in parallel to S3 - You better higher a VERY GOOD story writer who knows the ins and outs of the lore to fill in the colossal holes left by S3.

If S4 takes place right before S3 - Give us a pallet of ways to KILL the main villain of S3 - no S3 paradox, all is "fine"... Time mage can be the narrator.


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#35 gogoblender

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 08:49 AM

he damage is done to the franchise and the real player base of it. The ONLY fix is to make sacred 4 the right way of which should have been sacred 3.

 

Its not so easy to do. Sacred 4 would not only need to be a proper ARPG, but it will have a titanic task of undoing the damages from Sacred 3. The lore has to be meticulously rigged to include the blasted nightmare that it is, and there is no way around it... without being a cheap copout...

hah, I like this... I think justice comes as justice deserved... that the "cheap copout" should be used as kind of standing testimony to Deep Silver's sloppy care and execution of this product...

 

Let Sacred 4 start with a Seraphim waking up from this horrid nightmare

 

:4rofl:

 

gogo



#36 wolfie2kX

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 12:07 PM

Here is my two cents to this. The devs or whoever did a survey and asked what people wanted in the game the most. They got there feedback and made what people wanted. The thing though is most of those people who responded probably never played a second of sacred to begin with. They didn't listen to a single peep of a true player of sacred.

The damage is done to the franchise and the real player base of it. The ONLY fix is to make sacred 4 the right way of which should have been sacred 3.

As for me I don't like it as it seems to play to much off of LoL and the others instead of what makes sacred, well sacred. The one thing I did like is they kept the seraphim and black seraphim in the mix.

 

That makes no sense what so ever. If they did a survey  - WHO exactly did they bother asking? It certainly wasn't anyone in the community already established. You'd think DarkMatters is well known enough to Deep Silver as a place to advertise such a survey posted on their board (which, btw, I have yet to see posted there). In addition, you'd think they'd send an email to all the people who are registered on their forums. Heck, if they can send an email birthday card, they could spam their list once asking for input on what we want to see in Sacred 3.

 

Secondly, let's look at Sacred 3.. Instead of a lush, open world that you can roam endlessly, we got a linear brawler type game. Somehow, I just don't see anyone in this day and age asking for something like this. Not the fans of Sacred, nor gamers in general... I just don't see anyone saying "Gee.. I'm burned out on all these large, oversized worlds.. Gimme something old skool simpler." There might be a few people out there who crave that kind of thing, but overall I don't think there are that many.

 

That said, I somehow doubt seriously that Deep Silver's execs are stupid. Well... Let me clarify that. They're NOT entirely braindead to think that a linear game would be something we, the fans would want. Not after Sacred 1 and 2 gave us the whole open world experience. 

 

So the idea of a survey is out. Why would they do a survey and NOT ask the fans - the one group of people almost guaranteed to buy the game - what they wanted to see? 

 

If anything, Deep Silver has been going out of their way to guarantee Sacred 3 becomes a flop. The bean counters green-lighted a craptastic game that no one wants. They continued down this disastrous path even with an overwhelming TON of negative feedback when they gave people a tiny glimpse into what the game was going to be. They knew it would be a flop and did NOTHING about it.

 

As such, Sacred 4 is likely to never see the light of day. There's no justification in a sequel to the sequel because the current game isn't going to sell very well. 


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#37 lujate

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 12:33 PM

...
Let Sacred 4 start with a Seraphim waking up from this horrid nightmare
...

Like a bad season of Dallas. :biggrin:
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#38 gogoblender

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 12:35 PM

LOLOL! how did you know... bobby ewing!

 

:4rofl:

 

gogo



#39 Ironwill

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 01:45 PM

Sacred 3 came on august 1,took 11 hours to finish with all side quests but the pain in my chest does not seem to end.
50€ for that garbage :cry:



#40 Aegis

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 02:28 PM

You know you dun bad when I keep reading Deep Silver as 'Derp Silver', and I'm not doing it intentionally.  Anyways...

he damage is done to the franchise and the real player base of it. The ONLY fix is to make sacred 4 the right way of which should have been sacred 3.

 

Its not so easy to do. Sacred 4 would not only need to be a proper ARPG, but it will have a titanic task of undoing the damages from Sacred 3. The lore has to be meticulously rigged to include the blasted nightmare that it is, and there is no way around it... without being a cheap copout...

If S4 takes place before S3 - you need to set up the story to include nods to that future.

If S4 takes place after S3 - there need to be scars on the world.

If S4 takes place in parallel to S3 - You better higher a VERY GOOD story writer who knows the ins and outs of the lore to fill in the colossal holes left by S3.

If S4 takes place right before S3 - Give us a pallet of ways to KILL the main villain of S3 - no S3 paradox, all is "fine"... Time mage can be the narrator.

I'm personally of the opinion that if a S$ were to be made, you must make a S3: The Apology.


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