Regeneration per Hit - New Ice and Blood Builds

[chattius 2,675]

The idea is simple:

In the AddOn regeneration per hit is working correctly, as is mana steal from the elves magic coup and probably this hard hit of the inquisitor.. By having a 100% hit chance and adding either x% manasteal from combat art modifying or regeneration per hit by x-seconds from equipment or alchemy you can recharge your combat art/combination with a successful hit.

 

I play mainly melee elves and I read 199 runes in magic coup and can use a coup again as soon I have hit and recharged it with mana steal (modifier) and/or regeneration per hit. Interestingly magic coup has a buildin Chance to Hit modifier which is not shown ( I don't speak of the sure hit modifier in magic coup). So even a unmodified magic coup has a higher hit chance than a left click. So even the hit chance is shown at only 80% in last kill, magic coup hits way better. The 80% are only for left clicks.

So by eating more runes I boost my hit chance and damage at no regeneration costs------ as long as I hit and my regeneration per hit is high enough.

 

Dev-Team confirmed in the german forum that many combat arts have such a buildin hit chance. So I am playing my magic coup elves for some time now without a weapon skill, since double hits are not working for magic coup, attack speed is from arcane lore and most unique weapon don't have modifiers which have to be unlocked by a weapon skill.

 

So I was thinking which other classes would gain from this idea:

Best of cause would be combat arts which do a weapon attack but are a spell: spectral hand of the shadow warrior, sword fire( is it the english name, too lazy to look up) of the serafim. These could perhaps get better hit chance with higher levels too and could recharge themself with regeneration per hit. No need for tactic lore for these and perhaps you could even take away a weapon skill as I do with my melee elves. So gaining a free skill by not taking a weapon skill.

Of cause all weapon based Combat Art's are candidates too.......

 

Currently noone told me of a weapon based combat art in the AddOn for which Reg per Hit is not working. Even the dragon form combat arts seem to recharge with reg per hit-with trophies from alchemy skill.

 

So please give some feedback if this idea is working for other classes than elves too, I lack the time to play them all. It can change a lot: Higher buffs, more buffs, hybrids with a weapon Combat Art to recharge a spell combination, using only tactic lore to modify weapon Combat Art's, since regeneration is not really needed, .....

A lot of funny and strange ideas and perhaps some of them may even work. Think out of the box, throw away pre 2.64 behaviour: this is the AddOn and reg per hit is working on the PC now, and it was working for consoles all the time already I heard.

[Schot 419]

Oh that's fantastic news chattius. I've been eager to play with that modifier, I hadn't realized that it was working properly now. I did some minor testing of it in 2.34 which did have a significant effect on an early level character but not much at all on a high level character. What I had been hoping that Regeneration per hit would do is to have an effect on "Cooldown" timers. When I was trying it long ago it appeared to only effect "Regeneration and not "Cooldown". Any chance that you have seen it working on Cooldown timers?

 

I'll experiment with it on my level 148 Shadow Warrior and see how effective it can be. For the most part I see it working on Combat Arts whose regeneration timers are very high and have few skills aiding it's regen. I can see Regeneration per hit being an excellent tool to help regenerate Combat Arts of an Aspect for which a character did not choose corresponding Aspect skills for.

[chattius 2,675]

Sorry not seen on cooldowns or god powers. Horse Combat Art still need to be tested. I seem first the regeneration time is done and then the coold down. So even with reg per hit it is not possible to go below the cooldown.

But some Combat Art's get lower cooldown if modified so at the price of higher regeneration times - but what if these price is cheap because of reg per hit?

 

But this thread is to collect information. I did my tests with magic coup. Manasteal is a x% regeneration at hit and it seems to work nicely, even in combination with reg per hit. So test all stuff carefully before ruining a character.

 

In 2.34 reg per hit was strange, not working on every Combat Art, some suspected it was working on unaffected base regeneration time, so it would get less useful with more runes, lot of rumours in old times. All I can say: my elves work like a charm now and when asking for Combat Art's at which Combat Art would have no efect noone told me one in 3 weeks in the german forum. So I ask now here again for feedback, because if it is really working it would change a lot.

 

Reg per hit are these lines like life leech but with a different colour.

[Dragon Brother 620]

Yeah its definitely been working for me with my dryad and seraphim the last few days. Only problem is, that with lag goign full steam ahead, the game doesnt calculate the bonus regen until it catches up with what youve done. Meanign that you have no bonus regen until sometimes a second or 2 later and it all catches up at one and super regens one combat art. Kind of a problem when it takes less than that amount of time for you combat art to regen normally. More usefull for higher regen Combat Art's is what ive found for me. Offline, in singleplayer it works like a charm. Skills like the dryads darting assault get the bonus regen for every hit they make...so 4 hits gives you 4 x you're regeneration per hit... If only it worked so well for me online...

[Spunky 17]

For the first time it's actually works with Shadow Warrior Combat Art's, just found it out yesterday when I was out smacking with my +XP gear and one of the +XP rings had the regen per hit on it.

[chattius 2,675]

@Dragon Brother: Since I don't play online from home (mid in forest in country side and telefon is a wire nailed on trees all the way to the next village: results in 4800 baud at good weather) I have to believe your online experience. But it works like a charm in 4 player LAN.

My approach was to modify magic coup for x% combat regeneration mana leech so it can at high level have 100% combat regeneration on hit. But you run into a rune window when x% mana leech is not fully regenerating magic coup and the 30% not regenerated are some 6-7 seconds regeneration time:)

I can close this gap with regeneration per hit and hunting demons in blood forest for demon tooth trophies. So my tries were to push the level of magic coup as high as possible and use it to recharge combinations with spells which are really high too.

Like a maximums runes raging nimbus, followed by a maximum runes magic coup and repeating this combination like every 1.4 seconds. So up to 6 nimbus can be up, adding their powers....

 

I saw the Astral Lord of my daughter who stayed invisble and spammed out spectral hands who had re per hit to boost their level.

 

For online it is probably best to have one attack at lower levels for lag times and one high for no lag.

 

Another thing to be tested are the 2 different regeneration systems and if they have differrent effect on reg per hit or x% mana leech.

[Dragon Brother 620]

Well, sounds like your internet connection is even worse than mine. But, that definitely sounds like a nice plan you've got going there. 6 nimbus' hey...sounds pretty darn good to me

 

I played with it a little bit, in an attempt to find a happy medium in regards to the lag, but I ended up deciding that there was more use in focusing on other mods. Still, its something I will consider now when I find it.

[ka243 3]

I think regen per hit has always worked on consoles and I find it an awesome thing to use with any melee character. Having fun with it on a bfg seraphim with a pelting strikes + hard hit combo.

 

I think regen per hit has always worked on consoles and I find it an awesome thing to use with any melee character. Having fun with it on a bfg seraphim with a pelting strikes + hard hit combo.

 

I think it does not work to regen any spells whether in combo or not but does work to regen melee Combat Arts.

[gogoblender 3,365]

I haven`t played Ice and Blood much, but this weekend will delve deep. Regen per hit is one of the item modifiers that has always intrigued me. I know Schot had had some nice results with it on his Temple Guardian builds, but ...meh...it was never enough to convince me at least that it would be worthwhile to drop Concentration in favor of giving up sockets to use for this.

 

For a Dryad, I could see this modifier being VERY useful for her Combat Art`s... her Darting Assault, at higher levels doing five hits per strike... perhaps this would be enough to regen completely the Combat Art so quickly it would fire off like a machine gun?

 

But, and, if we built it out this way...what would the lack of concentration have on the Bark and Sinister Predator... the bark has become an almost must have for builds now with the increased level of difficulty with the expansion. I`d always opted out for concentration and mastered it early as it gave me a significant advantage with being able to run very high level buffs and counter the uber levels of Darting Assault I was using to boost damage.

 

Lots of questions, looking forward to exploring the possibilities.

 

 

gogo

[Dragon Brother 620]

For a Dryad, I could see this modifier being VERY useful for her Combat Art`s... her Darting Assault, at higher levels doing five hits per strike... perhaps this would be enough to regen completely the Combat Art so quickly it would fire off like a machine gun?

 

But, and, if we built it out this way...what would the lack of concentration have on the Bark and Sinister Predator... the bark has become an almost must have for builds now with the increased level of difficulty with the expansion. I`d always opted out for concentration and mastered it early as it gave me a significant advantage with being able to run very high level buffs and counter the uber levels of Darting Assault I was using to boost damage.

This was exactly what I had going with my dryad in SP...5 hits at even 0.5s regen per hit is 2.5seconds. Crazy stuff. Only prob was MP meant lag messed with the timer coordination but it was still very useful.

 

Also, even if you have ancient bark and sinister predator adding huge penalties you can remove huge amounts off your regen timers. Just socket 2 rings with it instead of 1...just gotta find the balance and a lack of concentration would only mean a lack of a second buff...unless you picked it without adding points. Like I said above...2.5seconds off your timer with each DA is amazing, double the rings, double the discount. The numbers can get huge. Like you said...combat art machine gun.

 

and @ka243 if it didnt work on combo's before for PC's it does know and I "think" it works on any form of combat art, spell, weapon based...whatever. But ill check when im on next and confirm.

[chattius 2,675]

Regeneration was changed in the Addon to bring in the new masterhand regeneration system as an option. Perhaps they overworked reg per hit and mana steal because of this.

 

When I asked for an idea for a mind flayer = mana steal Inquisitor I got following picture in the german forum:

 

Inquistor with life leech and reg per hit in action

 

Red is life leech, white reg per hit.

 

Reg per Hit is quite useful for magic coup too, stray damage takes usage of it. Now I can't wait (sadly I have to) to test a horse-Combat Art using character with reg per hit. I hope that I can charge charge-Combat Art which has no cooldown with weapon hits.

Edited October 30, 2009 by chattius

[Nihilith 0]

Just a question, to be sure : Reg/hit only works with weapons and associated Combat Arts ?

 

I was just dreaming of an over-powered balzing tempest (does it need an extra overpower source anyway ?).

1 blazing tempest hitting 10 foes, then doting them for an extra 5 hits, thats 60 hits, with a 0.5 s reg/hit, you got an instant Combat Art even if the built-in regen of 30 seconds !

 

Regarding the seraphim, we got archangel's wrath. May try this item mod on my techno babe sometimes. 2 bolts with a 0.5s reg/hit and my 1.1 sec AW becomes almost spammable (0.1s)

Edited November 2, 2009 by Nihilith

[ka243 3]

It will not work with blazing tempest or incendiary shower as far as I can tell. I don't know if it will work with AW. Definately works for soul hammer and pelting strikes combo though .

[gogoblender 3,365]

I just tried the mod out yesterday after Schot mentionned it to me as a way of recouping regen.

 

I have to say, I think just this mod alone is a reason to buy the expansion... what it does, and is going to do for all builds that use melee/ranged is going to have us rewrite builds.

 

All I can do now is think of skills I want to drop, stuff I want to change, add or mix up. For a ranged Dryad especially, this is nothing short of miraculous, being able to transform all your targets into a resource for regen...

 

I haven't stopped playing my new Dryad since starting to tinker with this, and if you guys have bargainers, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh, then the universe, has just started to roll.

 

 

 

 

gogo

 

p.s. heh, if anything, the mod is.... *cough* overpowered? But after all the nerfs we have weathered with plus skills rings and all...I do like the focus it brings back to item modifiers, which is where it was in original Sacred. It has gotten me interested in almost all of the item modifiers in the game, and, in fact.... I have completely dropped using plus all skills rings in my build since level 51 except for against bosses ^^

[Schot 419]

Ah this is great. I finally got to see regen per hit's effect thanx to a willing gogo, haha. Works wonders at that. It looks as though even with the loss of our beloved overpowered skills rings that fun new builds are still possible. Excellent research and presentation Chattius.

[gogoblender 3,365]

I wonder what would happen if I ate 200 Darting Assault runes, then used this mod ^^ In fact...I think I now see why they also made the rune-read limit 200. With almost unlimited regen in the game via this modifier...the old rule of us just reading one rune, then getting the rest from equipment has just been thrown out the window. Peeps can now down the max of 200 runes, for perhaps an primary Combat Art, where they would never have done that before, and perhaps even get some great results...

 

Lots of testing needed ^^

 

Any class that uses a wep, melee or ranged, can now perhaps eat a bunch of runes, then rely upon their hits to regen the Combat Art.

 

This is going to have some REALLY big changes on things like Acute Mind even

 

Muhahhaha

 

 

 

 

gogo

[ka243 3]

This is going to have some REALLY big changes on things like Acute Mind even

 

Muhahhaha

 

Effect on acute mind will be limited I think because regen per hit only works on regen times, not cooldown.

[locolagarto 18]

I understand the principle, but how has it changed in the add-on. regen per hit has alway been there right?

 

are the rings your finding much better than before?

 

And does this mean that steal mana is a better mod than life leech for the silver magic coup mod?

 

And with the instant hit of blow pipe, YES I would agree with the regen per hit idea but can you really get enough regen to overcome the penalties? granted with 4 hits per it wouldn't take as much as a melee weapon but...... 200 runes worth?

[ka243 3]

I don't think it worked on the PC at all before the addon (for any Combat Art). Its always worked as intended on consoles, which is kinda weird that something worked on consoles first.

Edited November 22, 2009 by ka243

[locolagarto 18]

I don't think it worked on the PC at all before the addon (for any Combat Art). Its always worked as intended on consoles, which is kinda weird that something worked on consoles first.

 

That would explain why it doesn't seem any different to me.

[gogoblender 3,365]

Just had an idea!

 

It's still useless for mages/Combat Art only users right? Not that I would complain if I had Ice and Blood but they should make it work "for every hit" regardless if it's spell, melee Combat Art, melee or ranged.

 

We're looking to test... however, if yer game....

 

The expansion allows magic staves to do ranged right?

 

Does that count as weapon/ranged now? ^^

 

 

So... if you had stave in one hand, then cast spells from the other... would the staves hits count as regen to help with the regen from the spells yer casting at the same time?

 

I like the synergy, but we'd need a caster to test and see if this work.

 

If it does...the Regeneration per hit would affect all the Combat Art's in slots that way... this work? And then a Caster could then read a TON of magical runes and then use the staves ranged to regen it for him?

 

Could this work?

 

 

gogo

[Woody 24]

Hey

 

What I know :

-> Magic staff allow you to shoot magic projectiles with wands

-> No effet with Ranged weapons

-> Regeneration per hit bonus work well with magic staff but not with spells (glacial thorns, etc...)

-> You need a physical attack for regeneration per hit (shooting staff, weapons attack)

-> I tested regeneration per hit with :

-- Dryad malicious totem : OK

-- Dryad forest flight : OK

-- Dryad Dust Devil : OK

-- Dryad Acute Mind : OK

-- Shadow Warrior Skelettal fortification : OK

-- Shadow Warrior Spectral hand : OK

-- Dragon mage all spells : OK

-- HE all spells : OK

-- Temple Guardian Icy evanescence/Fiery ember : OK

-- All weapon based Combat Art's : OK

 

BUT if you have -for example- 1.4 regeneration per hit :

-> with big regeneration Combat Art's (Acute mind, Icy evanescence, Skelettal fortification, etc...) work ONLY for one hit : 1.4sec bonus -not sure at 100%-

-> with low regeneration Combat Art's (Dedicated Blow, Darting Assault, Magic coup, etc..) rph work with every hit : 1.4sec bonus per hit -100%-

 

 

So... if you had stave in one hand, then cast spells from the other... would the staves hits count as regen to help with the regen from the spells yer casting at the same time?

 

I like the synergy, but we'd need a caster to test and see if this work.

 

So Yes, it work.

 

Hope it help.

Edited November 23, 2009 by Woody

[chattius 2,675]

If a spell has a cool down: first it counts down the regeneration time and after this the cooldown.

 

The new ergeneration system with splitting up the regeneration on all 3 aspects has to be researched with RpH and compared to the old one using RpH.

 

The sohei build in the guide section is an RpH based build. Since the dragon mage has no weapon based Combat Art it was designed to use left clicks with a x% life leech weapon. It has no tactics lore because the main damage is melee range mind strike modified for area damage.

 

At friday my 12 year old daughter reached level 178 with her shield maid never died and killed all niob bosses and did 500 quests. She started the character before the AddOn and with RpH not working. So she had splitted regeneration. In the AddOn she uses RpH to recharge a combination of nimbus and magic coup in no time, having up to 6 nimbus' active at a time.

 

Saturday she started a new character: A Sohei Shopper. The character should be playable with all weapons, a thing she liked from her shield maiden. It should be a shopper and even her school friends don't play hardcore she really hates it if a character dies. So we talked a bit how do do such a character and she said she didn't want any help from the family chest or the family smith. She played the character 8 levels in bronce,turned to silver and followed the campagne in 4 player LAN. She is level 26 now, just killed the 2nd mist. I will put her notes about the character in a post in my sohei thread.

 

Some of her ideas are strange, she never socketed damage: be it from blacksmith or in a jewelry. She has mind strike at 4.5s at a RpH of 2s because she says it looks better if the hero does 2 swings before a mind strike ( sacrificings tons of damage for combat better look, girls)

 

She has equally good hit chance with all weapons, so she tried out several weapons. Currently she prefers her two-handed sword. One reason is that it has x% life leech. But her halberd has it too. But she says that even the animation of the sword seems to be longer the time needed to orientate to an enemy seems to be shorter with the sword. The lancer seems to move to be in a correct position to thrust at some animations while the swordsman just swings.

Shurikens are really quick, but troublesome if the enemy is alerted and runs away. Bows can be used nicely if you do a maelstream from a distance to slow, shoot to recharge at the slowed enemies and do a ranged mind strike into the slowed group. But flight time of arrows are a factor in an RpH build too.

 

Don't think I will open another thread about best weapon for RpH use. I would like to have it all together in one thread.

Edited November 23, 2009 by chattius

[Llama8 11]

So, what you're saying is that RpH doesn't affect the cooldown part of a Combat Art's regen (if it exists). So taking Charged Grid (60 sec cooldown + some regen), the RpH would only affect the regen part of that, not the Cooldown part.

[chattius 2,675]

I haven't tested all classes yet, but you can't shorten the cooldown of a dragon mage transformation, can't shorten god power and I saw no effect on whirlwinds too.

So I really think that the cooldown is fix and wasn't planed to be shortened because of balance reasons.

 

So if you see RpH only working once: That is because regeneration time is before cooldown. So you hit, all regeneration time is done and what is left is cooldown. And on Cooldown RpH seems to have no effect.

Edited November 23, 2009 by chattius