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Yes, been away from FDM for a long time... but... S3... whaaaat?


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#21 Dobri

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 03:50 PM

Double post warning. I had to do it, cause I found let's plays on youtube. If you like them, buy the game :)





And to make this post longer, I will add my pre-launch comment from my youtube Sacred 3 angry rant. Read at your own peril.

 
It is quite simple really... Gamers nowadays became extremely forgiving. Many think that I overstate things in my rant. I guess people like button mashers more and more now. Hell, next thing we know, Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter will put a big red X on its dozens of years of legacy, and turn into an isometric 3D corridor button masher with an occasional "get over here!", and people will still sing their praises about it.

I have compiled all the info I have on S3 which will unlock tomorrow for EU. Some of it may still be incorrect, but it is as follows:
1. 15-20 Hrs total, 15 main, 25 side quests. Everything's a corridor or a small open area.
2. Minimalistic RPG options: pick 2 skills per mission, level up to unlock new ones.
3. 2+1+Main+Dodge Attacks.
4. Competitive gameplay: points get you either bragging rights, or if there are leaderboards, it may mean that people will fight for points like crazy.
5. Voice over IP or similar built-in chat mechanic.
6. Forced 4-man missions, even if you play solo. In this case you get bots.

Personal comments:
- I will keep saying it: price does not merit what this game does. It is by no means better than other arcade-style button mashers over there.
- no Magicka playstyle - people working together to chain attacks and help one another - which promoted friendship, togetherness, and tons of lols.
- no Dynasty Warriors type attacks - and I thought DW8 is minimalistic, but at least you could chain attacks at your leisure: 1-1, 2-1, 2-2, 5-2, 4-1, etc., and it worked well.
- RPG fans will feel hard done - you will gain levels, you will unlock skills, but the core RPG stuff that drove S1 & Sacred 2 forward, or any other decent RPG is no longer there.
- Some fans will feel the lack of loot underwhelming - especially since getting a "reward" at the end is based on chance. Still possible to have scripted stuff that gives you a weapon or armor piece regardless of the outcome.
- I sure hope the bots AI is decent, or you will scream at your PC and feel like kicking the hell out of it.
- I sure hope the scoring system is decent, or people will learn where the most pts are and will always go for those areas.
- If a mission hangs in the balance and you go save it at the cost of scoring less points, people will still get bragging rights and you will feel undervalued.
- Some classes may play similarly: now I am not really sure if that's gonna be the case, it is a personal observation, but if true... It will be Sacred Citadel all over again.
- EDIT: Is that "Sexey" commentary when you do something supposed to be cool?! Don't think it is.
- EDIT: The Seraphim narrator is kinda out of place in my opinion. Some jokes are cute, the narrator's voice is cute, but the kind-arrgessive-whoops type of personality is giving no sense or urgency or impending doom.
- EDIT: I am ok with games who don't take themselves seriously, and I guess S3 is one of them too. Or so it looks.

All in all, I am still quite pessimistic. The let's plays will start soon, and I will check them out as well. Then again, with so little time till the game hits the shelves and reviewers kinda split in their opinions of the game, I am still not convinced that it is going to be a good one. Might be fun to button mash through it 1-2 times, but that hardly merits the 50€/USD price.


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#22 Gilberticus

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

Gamers are more forgiving these days? Now that is a very interesting statement. I'm not being sarcastic or trying to be a troll here, I find it intriguing because it's the antithesis of what I considered gamers to be. The last time I checked gamer feedback, the consensus seemed to have a flavor similar to " The game 'fill in the blank' in my opinion is the epitome of it's genre. Now, I'm not expecting anyone to ever come out with a game that exceeds it, but dude, seriously, if you can't come out with a game that matches it in the areas of blah, blah blah, and blah blah blah, don't you dare try to bring that crap around here, cuz I ain't biting". If gamers are more forgiving, I wonder what happened to make us as a whole so complacent that we're gobbling up any crap they lay before us like an underfed Pac-Man?



#23 Shadout

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Posted 31 July 2014 - 07:12 PM

It would be difficult to talk about 'gamers' as some coherent group. The differences between something like some imaginary person playing an singleplayer RPG, a person playing FIFA or a person playing Angry Birds are huge (even if one person plays all 3 of the above, the experience the person is looking for in each game, would be wildly different. Point being; those games are not substitutes for each other - they arent for the same market).

I dont think the 'core' gamer archetype, those who would play a typical $60 game on console or PC, has changed that much in the last decades. Sure, genres has changed a bit, and gamer preferences are following suit, but none of that is really significant changes.
The biggest change is just new distinct groups or maket segments showing up, that can also be considered gamers.

 

I think it's more a matter of game developers designing what they believe the masses want. Rather than what the masses actually want. Problem being, the group of people they are targeting are probably not going to buy their game no matter what they do, and the smart thing would be to target the group of players that have a remote chance to care bout their games in the first place. You are a hell of alot more likely to get success if you make a niche game that the people in that specific group really want. Than making a game that tries to cater to 'everyone'.

 

It ought to be common sense tbh; should be much easier to make a game that 1 million people really want, than to make a game 10 million people really want. In the latter, you mostly end up making a game so bland, that nobody wants it.

 

It is a disconnect in logic, where developers/publishers seeing the succes of "simple Ipad games" for example, leads to the conclusion that if only games on PC or console were similar, then surely those same people who buy (well, download for free) games on their phone or tablet, will surely buy a console or PC game too! Which is not going to happen.

 

They apparently can't fathom that 1) People might not jump from casual phone/tablet gaming over to a console, no matter what happens and 2) Even if people do make the jump (clearly, a ton of people do play both phone/tablet games and console/pc games) most people probably don't want the same experiences on a tablet as they do on a console or PC.

Whatever they were thinking when decicing to make this game, it does sound like it is simply a bad game, maybe it will end up medicore at best, which won't help them much. Regardless of it being named Sacred or not.

 

We, as Sacred fans, are bound to be disappointed merely because they make such a drastic change from what we epxect (a relatively deep A-RPG). But at least if they made a good game in another genre, it might be kinda okay to be honest. Taking chances, innovating, and experimenting is generally a good thing. If there is quality in what is made anyway...

 

I'm not convince there is a niche of gamers out there, who just cant wait to play what Sacred 3 has to offer though.

 

Oh well, enough mindless ranting. Looking forward to the (rumored?) Kickstarter - Unbended -from those former Ascaron guys :)
Kickstarter and similar is such a great trend for doing what I said above; focusing a game on a smaller niche market of gamers, since the developers can see how interested people are - before actually making the game. You dont have to target your game for some unknown - and probably imagined - mass market, when your "customers"/supporters have already told you what they want.
 


Edited by Shadout, 31 July 2014 - 07:21 PM.


#24 Silver_fox

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 04:15 AM

For me it was enough to look at the Steam user reviews here: http://steamcommunit...anguage=english

 

Out of English, Russian and German opinions, almost all are of "negative" "don't buy" kind, and even those that are posted with thumb up turn out to sound negative in the message text (maybe people just forgot to change the icon to negative). The most positive opinions I've seen so far are along the lines of "If you like action packed combat you can spend some fun hours here. If you look for another Sacred 1 or Diablo, this will be the wrong game for you."

 

Honestly, even the games that are not liked by critics tend to get more positive Steam reviews that Sacred 3 got so far. Maybe that would change with time, as now the forums are filled with rage of old fans who preordered the game. But I don't think that if more that a few people called the game boring and able to occupy you for only a brief period of time it would get a solid fan base no matter how much time passes.


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#25 vaclaf

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:15 AM

So, the time of new Sacred is coming.. and I am thinking what kind of mind is responsible for this "game". I have an imagination.. A man who is thinking - lets go and make a game, which is stupidly dumped down, full of smashes, whooshes and flashes with great bubu monsters.Yeah, and don´t forget to piff off all developers, players and whole community of previously Sacred game, because, you know, that is the progress who all gamers want.
Over and over.

But its great that we can choose to not to buy this product and instead to support project Unbended (or different game from mature developers).

And of course, hello everybody from DarkMatters, you are all definitely unforgetable community! I hope there will be game which connect us again all together.

 

Vaclaf :-)

 



#26 PurpleSpace

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 07:55 AM

I can't understand why they wouldn't include loot drops? That just feels like a major oversight.

Edited by PurpleSpace, 01 August 2014 - 07:55 AM.


#27 Ysne58

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:01 AM

I'm not gonna give this game a try.  I want to cry.



#28 Shadout

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 09:11 AM

A case of "loot is too complicated for players to handle!". Imagine the horror for the co-op experience if players had to stand around for 3 seconds looking at gear! Totally breaks the flow!

Well, except that breaking the flow is generally a good thing, since it makes the normal gameplay (killing monsters) less repetitive.
It is the reason most games try to make you 'waste' time juggling the inventory, go back to cities to sell, repair or whatever.

Might also be because a good loot system is fairly difficult to make. Much cheaper just to throw it out the window...
Just look at the  mess Diablo 3s loot was at release. They also had this idea that itemization had to be really simple and easy to understand. Noble goals I guess, but not if it comes at the cost of being able to customize your character through your decisions - which kinda ought to be the most central element of an A-RPG.

But then, Sacred 3 is not an A-RPG at all. It reminds me more of Bastion, Transistor, or Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light. With the difference that those are of a better quality of course.

Some unkind reviews coming in:
http://www.eurogamer...sacred-3-review
http://www.gamesrada...acred-3-review/

Edited by Shadout, 01 August 2014 - 09:17 AM.


#29 haven

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 10:09 AM

I'm glad I didn't get the game. It's really a big letdown to me after all these years of waiting.. this rubbish is what we get?



#30 grimwold

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 02:10 PM

I always felt loot was one of the greatest aspects. Especially when something really nice drops. I know it was always hit and miss. But the pleasure of finding something really special makes sacred unique.



#31 Dobri

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Posted 01 August 2014 - 05:53 PM

Those lets plays were so enlightening. Make no mistake, I will buy the game when it goes down to 15-25 EUR. 15 preferable :) Those guys quite overdid it with the pricing policy. You either pop a 50 EUR game or you dont. SO many games chose a cheaper price.


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#32 colif

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 05:51 PM

As an ex Sacred 2 player myself, I feel your pain.

There are two types of reviews for this game, the first type is from people who never played the original and judge game based on its merits, and the second type is all the people who remember the first two games and are crucifying it for what its left out.

I had been looking for info on this game for the last few weeks, the general lack of game play videos was a worry.  Then they release game before the review embargo is over, as a means of getting people to buy it blind. 

All Sacred 3 has achieved is open my eyes to Unbended and get me to buy Sacred 2 gold again off Steam (I only stopped playing cause I couldn't find my install key for the expansion, and had to walk away from a game I enjoyed). Does the community patch work with steam version?



#33 Silver_fox

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:27 AM

There are two types of reviews for this game, the first type is from people who never played the original and judge game based on its merits, and the second type is all the people who remember the first two games and are crucifying it for what its left out.

I also have a feeling that there are two types of reviews for the game, but not the ones you listed. I feel that one type comes from people who expected an RPG and people who bothered to complete the game, and the other is written under the first impressions by people who were more willing to get the review out sooner than to make it entirely comprehensive. As to why - all of reviews except for "old fan's rage" ones mention that the game has good dynamic start. But then the more serious ones mention that it shows all it has to offer in the first couple of hours, and all subsequent levels are just repetition of the same. Even a character class change does not bring much variety to gameplay, because all characters play about the same, so the game becomes stale and boring soon enough.

 

Does the community patch work with steam version?

From what I remember, it does. Its developers sure did test it on the Steam version.


Edited by Silver_fox, 03 August 2014 - 12:28 AM.

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#34 colif

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 12:59 AM

I watched a video or two of the game, I saw the event with the switch that needs to be hit 6 times,  then later I found out that this event is repeated multiple times, and worked out I had seen almost all the game. There are only 3 monster types... (yells expletives), this game has no depth.

 

The reviews by Jim Sterling & Total Biscuit are all you need to watch to have seen half the game.

This and Sacred Citadel feel like an attempt to kill the series. It was already dead, this is stomping on its grave. I wouldn't be surprised to find out the makers of Unbended tried to get name and this is DS response. Its just as well Unbended has another name as the Sacred name is now tarnished.

 

I watched Dobri's Youtube video just now.


Edited by colif, 03 August 2014 - 05:18 AM.


#35 Gilberticus

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 08:24 AM

Community patch works with Steam



#36 DaveO

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 11:37 AM

If you folks still want to keep the Sacred spirit alive, you can still play the original and Sacred 2 with Tunngle. You're not forced to buy Sacred 3.


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I'd rather be part bull than a complete sheep.

#37 Astralify

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:24 PM

My soul is crushed. Направо ми се реве.... RIP Sacred... :sob:



#38 gogoblender

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 01:51 PM

I could not have said that better... More than anything I felt betrayed.. All this time... And for a flash game
:(

gogo

#39 Dobri

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:04 PM

He even said it in bulgarian. well... GG. I will still buy the game, as soon as it hits the 10-15€ price. More? no.


Edited by Dobri, 04 August 2014 - 12:05 PM.

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#40 Ysne58

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Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:37 PM

I've never tried Tungle.






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