The Montreal Police Kicks Asses!!!!!

[OuttaTown 0]

Today I was really really really...really (just to unjynx the third one).. upset for getting a ticket....

 

Apparently the police have been doing for a month around the neighborhood telling citizens, pedestrians in particular, how to behave when crossing the street. I laud them for that. However, I have not heard any of the campaign and I have been working for that city for a month and according to the police website, they are only supposed to give notices and fine people who are doing something dangerously when crossing the streets.

 

Well... anyways....It was a very very tiresome afternoon...when the sun was shining from the East...And of course, it doesn't really help my stigmatism (I am highly sensitive to light..)...Anyways, I was crossing on red light (the light for pedestrians)...and I saw green light for cars... I saw the three policemen....I didn't care....I still crossed the street at the intersection. But, it didn't occur to me that I was ignoring the policemen until I heard some jingling noises coming probably from the handcuffs. I was walking fast...and waas hoping that the person was not trying to catch me but dang! it was me... (at this point I have two choices...outrun the guy since I have super long athletic legs and a good boxer cardio...or let him catch me and pretend to be innocent...)... Of the two..I have decided to pretend innocent....since well...I was in front of a police station...and the street isn't exaclty very crowded...especially it was in the burrough far from civilization...It is not very smart the first place to think of outrunning a policeman who can slap you with more fines.

 

So bla bla bla...he took me back to the other side of the sidewalk...give me a fine..of 37 BUX ...What:) 37?!?

 

15 for the jaywalking, 12 for having them writing a tickent and 10 for the victims of crimes. Holy Hannah! ? victims of crimes?! I ain't paying no victim of crimes. there are no such BS.

 

 

Any ideas people how to contest the 10 bux? I don't mind paying 27... but not the victim of crimes !

[erialc 2]

 

You get fined because ........................a world gone mad!...and ugh I am breaking forum rules to discuss politics...so back to the fine!

 

Is there a department you can write to that deals with these fines? I know we have a system where by if you get a parking ticket it's x amount if paid within X days and more thereafter. On this ticket there is then an address in tiny print on the back telling you where to write to in the event you wish to appeal an unfair ticket!...maybe there is an address somewhere on that ticket! GL with it HK and let us know if you get to have the 'Victims of crime' nonsense squashed..... And bad you don't cross when it's not your light!

[gial 2]

I don't know Canadian law very well (in fact not at all, really), but in the US, and most countries based upon English Law, there is (supposedly) a presumption of innocence and a right to confront your accuser. I would expect that you have the opportunity to get a court date and contest the charges. If so, (again here in the US), and the policeman were not to appear nor testify in the case, you would win by default. Probably more than 10 bux of your time, but it's a principle involved.

[myles 2]

I think you have to either contest it or pay all of them.

 

Of coz I'm familiar with only the law in US and HK. As gial said in US you go to court and you almost always would win, policemen won't use their free time going to court for tickets they wrote. But! you still have to pay for some miscellaneous fees.

 

I guess that's what the victim of crime thing is for.

[Ike 1]

A few things . . .

 

1. The fine is probably statutory and is not something that can be changed, I.e. not having to pay the victims-of-crime portion. A judge may be able to waive it, but I wouldn't bet on a judge actually doing so, and the judge may not even have the authority. Normally, that kind of fine simply applies across the board to every conviction.

 

2. Depending on the jurisdiction, the cops may or may not be there for the trial. My guess, based on what you have said, is that a small group of officers was sent to specific locations to give out a huge number of tickets and they want to impress upon people that they are enforcing this law. Therefore, it is a good bet that the officers will be around, as all 5000 of their tickets will be for the same day or three.

 

3. At least in the US, you would have to go to court twice. The first time to be appraised of the charges against you, and to set up the trial date, and the second time for the trial itself. So you may want to think carefully about how much time you feel like investing in this.

 

4. If you really want to fight the charge, get a copy of the law and figure out what the elements of the offense are. Figure out if any of them are arguable in your case. Usually, there is no intent element in this type of offense (strict liability). So you may have no real defense. While you have the presumption of innocence, if you do not have some way of rebutting the evidence, as presented by the officers, you may be in trouble.

[gial 2]

3. At least in the US, you would have to go to court twice. The first time to be appraised of the charges against you, and to set up the trial date, and the second time for the trial itself. So you may want to think carefully about how much time you feel like investing in this.

 

There are circumstancxes where you can arrange the arraignment other than by appearing. You may be able to mail (or perhaps even email) your intent to contest, or possibly telephone the clerk of the court; and thereby get a court date set without appearing first. This is not always possible, however.

 

Also, as Ike said, you may not have a defense to rebut the officers' testimony, but if they don't show, they cannot testify. If they issued a great many such tickets, I would expect that the officers may not appear in court at all -- their main purpose was to be a visible presence to deter your criminal activity (lol). If several cited pedestrians contest the charges, it would be many hours or possibly even a few days in court; not likely for such petty offenses.

[BlueRookie 0]

It's always fun to see what people think, from other countries too, from different backgrounds, from different experiences or simply from what they've heard. Ike seems to be the most on target so far and I will clarify what will happen and what you can do about this ticket...

 

There are facts and opinions.

 

My opinion is : You will be found guilty if you contest.

 

Facts are : The 10 extra dollars are for the Centre d'Aide aux Victimes d'Actes Criminels (CAVAC) which losely translated is the Aid Center for Victims of Criminal Acts. It applies to every ticket given in accordance with the Code de la Sécurité Routière. CSR. Vehicle traffic code I guess would be the right translation.

 

- A judge can find you guilty and wave the price of the ticket saying you're guilty but you don't have pay the fine. This is very rare and he has to believe you commited a very small infraction unknowingly. For that you have to find a good excuse and admit that you did commit the infraction. But once again, that is very rare. He won't waive the CAVAC fees of 10 dollars though, it's all or nothing.

 

- The police officer doesn't have to be present in court. Especially for such a small infraction. Police officers get paid 4 hours at 150% to go to court of their off days... not worth assigning them at the price of your ticket. On every tickets police officers write is a written testimony of what they saw. It counts as their word. You can ask the judge to assign the police officer as a witness and your case will be reported to an ulterior date but if you lose the case you might be overcharged the costs of summoning this police officer in front of the court... I.e. Quadruple the cost of your ticket.

 

- You only get summoned once to court, not twice. Preliminary hearing is only used when there are criminal charges.

 

On a more boring note : Montreal is where jaywalking occurs the most in all of North-America and is one of the major city where every year, per capita, there are the most injured pedestrians crossing the street at red lights or where they are not supposed to.

 

If you have more questions feel free to ask. Oh and yes, Canada's law is different than other countries and CSR isn't Canadian, it's province law.

[OuttaTown 0]

Thanks for replying guys/gals U da BESTESTS!!

 

Anyways after relentlesstly punching the bag (poor bag)....at the gym.... I finally resolved to pay the whole thing. It doesn't matter anymore. If I constest, it will take 8 months before a trial date is set + court fees + a subpeona (unsure how it is spelt) to bring me from school (I might have exams by that time) to Montreal to testify. It's too much to lose for something so little. So Just "donate" some for the gov.

ot

Edited May 22, 2007 by OuttaTown

[Indy13 5]

Alternatively you could leave the country and come back after your crime has prescribed. Guaranteed way of not paying the fine at all.

 

j/k

 

Sucks that this has happened but you took the right decission in the end. Going to court for this would be just a a waste of time and money (which is why they gave you a bigger fine in the first place, they knew you had no choice but to pay it).

[BlueRookie 0]

For those of you that can read French... http://lcn.canoe.com/lcn/infos/faitsdivers...428-223623.html

 

Another pedestrian got hurt last night. He was badly hurt when I arrived on the scene, he will survive though. I know tickets are a drag but punishement is necessary sometimes

[OuttaTown 0]

I do not think that fining someone actually prevent people from jaywalking. From hearsay at the city hall, a councillor say that the police fine people only when they actually need to fill a quota on a given month.

 

On Most days I have worked on that street (opposite to the police station) I do not see one single police officer. and on the day I got fined, there were three of them. The police should crack down on crime rates rather than fining simple jaywalkers crossing at a non busy intersection with few cars passing by!

 

Fines are more arbitrary than necessary in such case. I do not know about the link- but at night time there are reduced visibility.

Edited May 1, 2007 by hkboi20

[BlueRookie 0]

There are quotas but they're called targets or objectives. No boss or supervisor would dare call them quotas but they are that. As for fines discouraging Jaywalking I think it can work but it there has to be massive crackdown on such behaviour. Then again anyone could argue that if you check both sides any street is safe.. How do you verify if someone genuinely checked before crossing or wasn't listening to their I-pods. How many times have I stopped cyclists listening to their I-pods while cycling. It's very dangerous. And most of the time the answer is : «I wasn't listening to anything man, I know it's illegal, I was just wearing them, check for yourself...» Why would someone wear the darn earplugs if not to listen to the darn music. Anyway, it's one example amongst thousands of others. The thing is, our society makes choices and one of this choice is to dictate what behaviour we can or cannot have. There are many laws and rules in our society, there has never been so many restraints as we now have. You complaining about getting a ticket for a behaviour you deem appropriate is understandable. Heck, I hate getting tickets... It pisses me off everytime. And I'd be piffed to get one for jaywalking, on the other hand, I'd be the 1st one to ask where are the cops when you need them? if a pedestrian cut me off and forced me to stop on my green light. I don't have answers, only questions... One thing is sure, nothing is simple.

[gogoblender 3,071]

lol!

C'mon HK...you dropped the ball twice here man

One, you broke the law...two...you got caught!

Stop squirming and pay why dontcha

 

 

gogo

[OuttaTown 0]

I already paid- I am not complaining I ma just saying that fining people over jaywalking is ineffective cause ....well you guess what I did today ....along with several hundred students today ....

 

you get a ticket- you would say what a bummer...but nobody cares!

[myles 2]

Um, you care?

 

Sry man that's the real world, S-h-I-t happens sometimes. Just don't let it get onto you.

 

Oh If I'm learned just a little, never argue with a cop. Nope, you will never win.

[gogoblender 3,071]

I already paid- I am not complaining I ma just saying that fining people over jaywalking is ineffective cause ....well you guess what I did today ....along with several hundred students today ....

 

you get a ticket- you would say what a bummer...but nobody cares!

 

I would care if I got fined...and I'd certainly be more wary in the future.

I think you're lying btw and you're going to be VERY careful the next time you jaywalk

 

gogo

 

p.s. see, once you get over the fact that your ego was bruised I guarantee you'll be FAR more careful whenyou cross the street again.

Yer just angry you got caught is all...breathe and this will pass

So..purpose served...ticket worked...yay happiness.

[BlueRookie 0]

It simply means that next time you want to jaywalk don't watch for incoming cars, just watch for cops

[Schot 407]

Yup. That's my rule. Look both ways and if you see a cop you stop!

[OMGSTUFF 2]

I love the legal system.

$15 for the crime. Shouldn't your ticket be only $15? Didn't someone, at some point, decide that the fine for jaywalking would be $15?

 

The same thing happened to me. I was pulled over for speeding (I was passing someone going down a hill & there was a policeman @ the bottom). The cop lowered it to a seatbelt violation (which he was doing to meet his quota). The fine-

 

$25 for the ticket.

$65 for a mandatory New York State "Processing Fee"

 

I pled guilty (which I shouldn't have, I just didn't want to take a day off of work to go to court), so the fact that they charge $65 to "process" a money order and check some boxes on a stupid paper really piffed me off.

 

 

I don't understand the system...

They obviously aren't making enough money from the fees they charge for the tickets, so they instituted these fees (in your case- $12, in mine- $65)... why don't they just re-evaluate the charges they assign for the tickets?

 

 

It's like we're giving them a bonus for doing their job.

[OuttaTown 0]

Um, you care?

 

Sry man that's the real world, S-h-I-t happens sometimes. Just don't let it get onto you.

 

Oh If I'm learned just a little, never argue with a cop. Nope, you will never win.

 

 

You are right dude! but still I can use 37$ to buy myself a huge sushi buffet dinner instead of paying the police. We pay tax to pay the police to fine us...?!?! You are right. You SHOULDN't ARGUE with a cop. the correct procedure is to be polite and courteous, keep your hands where the police couls see them. Do not resist an arrest cause you may be charge resisting or obstructing justice. Do not touch the police officer. Just write down the police officer's name, badge, physical description and the police car number. note time, date, exact location of incident. you have 30 days to contest. Find witnesses. Seek medical attention and take pics immediately isf injured. Obtain a medical report.

 

Most importantly if you are stopped, you only have the obligation to divulge information when the police give you the reason why he is stopping you.

 

It simply means that next time you want to jaywalk don't watch for incoming cars, just watch for cops

 

you are right:p...

 

Yup. That's my rule. Look both ways and if you see a cop you stop!

 

be careful though...if you stop the police might charge you obstruction of blocking the walkway ..or whatever it is called.

 

 

ot

 

P.S OMGSTUFF I understand your pain!

Edited May 22, 2007 by OuttaTown