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  1. Finally, after many, many hours of testing and filling multiple spreadsheets, here are the revised formulas. They should be 99.99% accurate (with a few caveats explained below). FinalDamage = BaseDamage + IntelligenceBonus Where: - FinalDamage - The combat art damage shown in the inventory screen or in the tooltip when hovering over the combat art itself. BaseDamage = FLOOR( FLOOR( (InitialDamage + (DamagePerLevel * FinalCombatArtLevel)) / (1000 / SpellBaseDamage) ) * (1 + SumPercentageBonuses) ) Where: - BaseDamage - Not shown directly in-game, but you can easily find it by subtracting the displayed intelligence bonus from the displayed combat art damage. It is one of the components in the next formula. - InitialDamage and DamagePerLevel - Values from spells.txt. Specific for each combat art. - FinalCombatArtLevel - The combat art level after penalty. - SpellBaseDamage - The parameter from balance.txt. Default value is 25 (unmodded game). - SumPercentageBonuses - Sum of all percentage bonuses (bonus from the combat art itself, Aspect Lore, Ancient Magic, Combat Discipline, Rings with +X% damage of the same element). IntelligenceBonus = BaseDamage * 0.001 * FLOOR(attrSdam_fact * 0.001 * FLOOR((25 / SpellBaseDamage) * FLOOR(Intelligence * 40 / (1 + MIN(BaseCombatArtLevel, CEIL(CharacterLevel / 3)))))) - MysteriousPenalty Where: - IntelligenceBonus - The value shown in the tooltip when you hover over the intelligence attribute (Combat Art Damage +X). - attrSdam_fact - The parameter from balance.txt. Default value is 334 (unmodded game). - Intelligence - The total intelligence value (after Survival Bonus). - BaseCombatArtLevel - The base combat art level before penalty. Add together the runes used + equipment bonuses. - MysteriousPenalty - It is either exactly 0, or exactly 0.1% of the BaseDamage. No exceptions. I was not able to figure out the mechanism behind it. It seems that the combination of attrSdam_fact and the combat art level have something to do with it. In practice, since attrSdam_fact is constant, this penalty will likely appear every other combat art level (irregularly). But the BaseDamage must also be high enough to make a difference. Caveats: - In spells.txt, multiple entries of the same damage element (physical, magic, fire, ice, poison) are added together. This applies to percentage bonuses too (in general). There is no rounding inbetween. But when there are multiple elements involved, all of the formulas must be used for each element individually. Round down the results, then add them together to form the combined FinalDamage. - Sometimes the calculated IntelligenceBonus (and therefore FinalDamage) will end up being higher. The only reason for that should be the MysteriousPenalty, which you can easily compensate for since it is exactly 0.1% of the BaseDamage. - Sometimes the calculated BaseDamage (and therefore FinalDamage) will end up being lower. Here are two reasons why: 1) When there are percentage bonuses involved, sometimes the stated number is not the actual number that's used. Example: 2) When there are partial combat art levels involved, the number shown isn't the entire number. Example: - Otherwise, and as far as I'm aware, getting a higher or lower value than expected means that there is a deficiency in the formula. - Number overflowing is another aspect that is not as straightforward as it seems. Maybe I'll look into in at another time. But unless you are testing with some really high values, you shouldn't worry about this. Enough for now. I'll post some of my findings in more detail later
    3 points
  2. Turns out it indeed is. Finally had some time for tests. 6 normal hits, 8 crit hits. Before: 684 STR, 347 bonus Double bonus, so 1365 (closest possible due to SB). 695 bonus. Achieved by dumping 516 points into STR, 684 STR: Normal - 17034, 18966, 17661, 20243, 17346, 17638: average 18148 Crits - 23748, 25070, 23245, 23879, 23943, 24598, 25124, 24537: average 24268 1365 STR Normal - 26735, 26806, 23642, 24932, 26799, 24044: average 25493 Crits - 29669, 30012, 30861, 31563, 29147, 28765, 28617, 30675: average 29913 Conclusion - dumping 516 points into STR, more than is available in the entire 200 levels your character can gain (401) netted a 40% (probably too high due to small sample size) increase in left click attacks and 26% increase in critical hits. Seemed about 20 or so % for Pelting Strike hits. Not as worthless as previously thought, but still extremely lackluster. EDIT: Larger sample size: 684 STR, 347 bonus: Normal - 20221, 19805, 22191, 18318, 19807, 21029, 17125, 20810, 16770, 16746, 17450, 21324, 20574, 19917, 16397, 20393, 17115, 20081, 21108, 20101 - 19364.2 average Crits - 24036, 24347, 24556, 24236, 24394, 25242, 23419, 24062, 25313, 24023, 25402, 24155, 23810, 24676, 24029, 24275, 24107, 24853, 23405, 23809 - 24307.45 average (Interesting note - for some reason, Critical Hits have a much tighter spread than normal hits. It would seem like a Critical Hit actually causes a bias to the damage roll, so that values closer to the maximum damage of the weapon are picked more often) 1365 STR, 695 bonus Normal - 25319, 26810, 24278, 24932, 27420, 24935, 26789, 26818, 23341, 24186, 22635, 26533, 27198, 22070, 26848, 22413, 23737, 25660, 24551, 25505 - 25098.95 average Crits - 30776, 29354, 30503, 31119, 29540, 30866, 31873, 28607, 29910, 29831, 30049, 29982, 28971, 29901, 29525, 29391, 28990, 30366, 30012, 29556 - 29956.1 average Doubling Strength bonus led to an increase of 29.6% for normal hits (higher most likely due to better armor penetration) and 23.2% for Critical Hits. Didn't do an extensive test for Pelting Strikes, but seemed to be about a ~20% increase by eye. The entire escapade required dumping 516 points into strength. Still will never put a point into STR or DEX unless I increase the attrWdam_fact value in balance.txt.
    3 points
  3. I thought your Executioner was supposed to use "Fist of the Gods" not "Throwing Blades" I agree on that such basic guides are usually quite useless. But that's the interesting part. I was wondering why this slowing down mechanic felt so common sense to me in the Sacred universe. Had a hunch, so I unburied the manual. Turns out I was right, it does introduce the basic idea of this. You're right as well that it is confusing naive and in this case even contradictory with itself claiming on one page that the speed penalty on armour could be reduced by agility(which is wrong) and on another page tells us the correct skill is Armor lore. I guess both might have made sense so it could have changed during developement. Interesting fact here is that agility would have been availible to all classes while armor lore is missing on the battle mage forcing him to crawl or ride a horse. I woder whether the developers originally thought of that I understand. You thought the skill might not just have a speed bonus but also a hidden "maximum speed" bonus. I just thought the game is so weird it could be generally ignoring the cap on the skills speed bonus. Skills(not CA's) in Sacred 1 don't have any mastery unlock mods and the Sacred 2 one's unlock new mods and a different scaling function at 75 but other than that there is nothing I like that that I know about. Your line of thought however is more correct than you give yourself credit for. If you were looking at CA's(not skills) there are lots of examples of things that only change at certain breakpoints like mages getting an extra meteor or another ice shard. So expecting a similar behaviour from an invisible mod on cataract doesn't seem so far off. I agree that there should be more to this skill assuming the developers have put any thought into it at all. According to the wiki it gives more than 400% speed bonus at level 200 which would put a capped out one at over 1000% speed bonus. In a game that caps speed at 220. But there are many things like that in the game, which just lead me to believe my assumption must be wrong I'm not sure they did. After all, they also designed a whole Gladiator CA around throwing away your weapon.
    2 points
  4. Lol, what were you smokin, Gogo, can I get some? For once I think I didn't write that big of a mess and I felt very clever actually answering a question and not asking it. (At least I knew it was a penalty, right? After two decades, that's something I guess. At least I didn't start ranting about left clicks and right clicks like this admin guy ) I just didn't know how it's calculated, as I hate maths and I despise of calculating things altogether. What really matters is getting your levels in and pounding the enemy into the ground afterwards. If however you are too low level, you can still decrease the penalty with the skill. So you can pound them into the ground earlier.
    2 points
  5. and sometimes right click is also attack speed according to the source I linked above. At least we know now that the right click left click confusion was just a mistake. So far my explanation seems the most coherent here and xeyp's data turned out just as expected. I'm stlill baffled by the fact that noone here knew their way around this basic mechanic. I just checked, the original Sacred handbook basically says the same thing I said above. Higher level stuff slows you down unless you're properly trained. I guess there are some downsides to the new age of digital copies. No box, no handbook, no clue about the game no we don't I don't know how you got to the "level dependant" idea here but I agree that the game is strange enough for anything to be possible. Btw. with Quick as a Flash there's another speed combat art like that, this time for the woodelf.
    2 points
  6. Hmm, never knew you could cheat around the ca regen that way. But now that I do I still wouldn't use it. Far too much effort for far to little value. Switching slots like once a second or more... Sacred was mechanically never a good game for playing with others. There are benefits for a certain number of players in a game and there may have been an mf boost for being partied but fighting in the same spot didn't make you faster and gave everyone less xp(Same xp but shared). Sacred 2 was the same in that regard. The efficient multiplayer always meant going separate ways. MAybe it's just the difference between people spending time with other people deciding to play a video game and people like me, playing a video game and accidentally stumbling upon other people
    2 points
  7. This is getting ridiculous! Just the other day I started a classic heavy(est) hitting Gladiator with a build centered around the hardest hitting 2Handed Axe Lore Weapons and multiplying that by the Fist of the Gods & Crit Strike and I named him the DoomSla.. I mean: ... and you're calling for the executioner haha lol. The name is a riff on the Monty Python sketch Biggus Dickus, but Maximus Aximus sounds better than Biggus Axus Also even better(more ironic), when he finally finds the hardest hitting Axe ... that is a Two-Handed Hammer. EDIT: I can't stop laughing - or should I be concerned - you got the Red Emoticon with an AXE. ... his name is Red and has an Axe... Still unsure if this is mega funny or creepy hahah. Collective consciousness y'all.
    2 points
  8. Oh boy, what's going on here? Almost nothing in this thread makes sense. So to answer the original question: Every weapon and every armor piece in Sacred has an Item level and a required level to wear it. The required level is 20% lower and another flat 2 down example Level 10 items need level 6 to wear(11->7, 20->14 etc.). Items that have a higher item Level than your character impose a speed penalty when worn. Armours reduce movement speed, weapons reduce attack speed. The closer your character level gets to the item level the smaller the penalty until it disappears at equal level. There is no benefit for being higher level than your item only a penalty for being lower. This penalty can be reduced by putting points in armor lore(for armor pieces) and the appropriate weapon lore(for weapons). For the "hack" in question points in sword lore would help. The weapon lore and armor lore basically increase your character level for the calculation of this speed penalty meaning it can be brought down to no penalty this way. The same mechanics apply to sacred 2 as well with the exception that the required level is only (Itemlevel*20%+1) lower. I have no clue what all this crap is about. Left clicks make your character do basic attacks with their weapon. Right clicks use the currently active combat art. Combat art regeneration has absolutely nothing to do with attack speed. Combat art execution of weapon based combat arts can be effected by attack speed. Wether it is depends on the combat art. (see link below) The different weapon types have different anymations for all characters and on horseback/in flying demon form. These anymation determine a basic attack rate with that type of weapon. This attack rate is then increased or reduced by your characters attack speed value. You find the current attack speed value when you hover the mouse over your resists in the inventory. There is no information on the different base attack rates visible ingame. This post gives some more details on this and also on the combat arts that are effected by attack speed: https://nightwolfe.proboards.com/thread/2343/attack-speed-info-guide-characters Gogo what happened to you? Since when do you no longer know the difference between attack speed and combat art regenerations? Combat art regeneration time formulas are known and listed on the wiki here: https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred:CA_and_Spell_Regeneration_Formulae_(%2B_Base_Value),_by_Telenochek_and_Covenant_and_edited_by_Myles_(Part_1) I hope this clears up most of the misinformation here and most importantly, answers the SilverStreak's question. If any of Gogo's crazy ramblings are in fact true I'd love to hear more about that but so far these claims seem so outlandish that I just assume they are wrong. In case someone wants to test them, I'm talking about attack speed penalties supposedly making combat arts execute faster, or regenerate faster or attack speed effecting regeneration times at all.
    2 points
  9. Of course we do. My dumb ideas always inspire to greatness
    2 points
  10. Sacred 2-calc-spells View File A damage calculator for spell-based combat arts. Original thread and post https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/18511-how-is-sacred-2-weapon-damage-calculated/&do=findComment&comment=7144732 It's a html file (including css and javascript) that you can run in any modern browser, desktop or mobile. You input: - The character's level. - The value of the intelligence attribute. - The base combat art level (before the penalty). Add together the runes used and equipment bonuses. - The final combat art level (after the penalty). Note: When dealing with partial levels, be aware that the displayed number in-game is not the entire number! - The combat art damage values from spells.txt . - The relevant percentage bonuses - from the combat art itself; from skills like Aspect Lore, Ancient Magic, Combat Discipline; from equipment. Note: The displayed value in-game is not always correct. The calculator outputs: - Final damage - The combat art damage shown in the inventory screen or in the tooltip when hovering over the combat art itself. - Intelligence bonus - The value shown in the tooltip when you hover over the intelligence attribute (Combat Art Damage +X). - Base damage - Not shown directly in-game, but it is basically the final damage minus the intelligence bonus. You can also: - Specify one or multiple damage elements (Physical, Magic, Fire, Poison, Ice). - Adjust the relevant parameters from balance.txt . - Input expected values (the values seen in-game) for easy comparisons. Submitter Maneus Submitted 07/04/2024 Category Ice & Blood Miscellaneous  
    2 points
  11. It does one "blast" every second for 50 seconds. I have no clue what that ca switching part is about, please elaborate I also have no clue why you think sacred 2 would bge slow compared to sacred underworld. I recently played UW and it's so clunky... Did you know you can interrupt a ranged multi-hit with itself? You always have to click once, wait for arrows, then click again. If you click again too early, no arrows at all. In Sacred 2 you just hold down left and right mouse button to run automatically, the moment something ends uo under the curser it gets obliterated and you move on. In Sacred 2 you also get auto pickup and can sell on the way. So much time wasted in UW picking up single items... To me Sacred 2 feels a lot faster and smoother to play. Well 150k on poison mist is nowhere near "maxed out". With testosterone it is easily possible to do more than 600k. The dwarven "cannon" skills all run against the skill damage cap that was introduced to prevent an overflow that could once occur. Some capped skills have tooltips that wrap around like bfg others like the dwarf ones claim to do higher damage but they don't. They're all capped at ~65535 per damage type and that is afterwards multiplied with the SB damage bonus so a possible total of around 98k per damage type, the dwarven mortar reaches cap with two and therefore gets to somewhere below 200k. I don't know if poison mist is capped as it usually doesn't reach that high a number on either of its damage types, but what I do know for sure is that the bonus from testosterone does not get capped and thereby poison mist can hit for far more damage in a single hit than basically every other non weapon damage based CA. for the landing demon we're dealing with a weapon based CA. And I guess with the help of hellpower it should take the throne on maximum single hit damage in the game, otherwise its either Fist of the Gods or a darkelf with testosterone and hard hit. The demon however has to get off the ground first which will carry a significant regen time, even with a lvl1 ca in a combo and than do the landing so it takes a lot of time and is not as freely available. The poison mist you compared it to sports a regen time of far below 2 seconds fpr a level 510 CA so it is basically always ready. It also stays around so that if a new one isn't ready you can pull enemies through the old one. Poison mist is also definitely king of damage per CA as you have to multiply its damage by its 50s duration. It's also king in singletarget dps as you can stack more than 30 on top of each other reaching like 20 million dps, not that that would ever matter in this game Why the combo? It's barely faster than throwing the 4 poison mists seperately but then it has like an infinite regen time unless you drink a potion, of which you can't fit that many into that tiny inventory.
    2 points
  12. We have the formulas https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/18511-how-is-sacred-2-weapon-damage-calculated/&do=findComment&comment=7144854
    2 points
  13. Time for another breakthrough! For Astral Lord Lore, after looking at the numbers from the inventory screen, I was surprised to find that they match perfectly with the results from the formulas in the wiki https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Astral_Lord_Lore Now we're left with the question: Which is correct - the tooltip or the inventory screen? I believe it is the tooltip that is wrong. Here is my theory: I assume that, in-game, all percentages are stored as whole numbers (180.8% is actually 1808). That is exactly how percentages are written in spells.txt. I also know, from my previous tests, that the game uses 32-bit floating point numbers to store some (or all?) of the values. In order to show a whole number as a percentage, we need to divide it by 10. In the case of 32-bit floating point numbers, this very likely leads to a loss of precision. If, due to loss of precision, we get a lower result and round it down, then it will become exactly 0.1 lower. So I did the following test: let convertTo32BitFloat = function (value) { const array = new Float32Array(1); array[0] = value; return array[0]; } let inventoryValues = [99,137,174,211,247,283,317,351,385,418,450,482,513,543,573,603,632,661,689,716,743,770,796,822,848,873,897,921,945,969,992,1015,1037,1059,1081,1102,1124,1144,1165,1185,1205,1225,1244,1263,1282,1301,1319,1337,1355,1373,1390,1407,1424,1441,1458,1474,1490,1506,1522,1537,1552,1567,1582,1597,1612,1626,1640,1654,1668,1682,1695,1709,1722,1735,1808,1838,1867,1895,1924,1952,1979,2006,2033,2060,2086,2111,2137,2162,2187,2211,2235,2259,2283,2306,2329,2351,2374,2396,2418,2439,2461,2482,2502,2523,2543,2563,2583,2603,2622,2642,2661,2679,2698,2716,2734,2752,2770,2788,2805,2822,2839,2856,2873,2889,2905,2921,2937,2953,2969,2984,3000,3015,3030,3045,3059,3074,3088,3102,3117,3131,3144,3158,3172,3185,3199,3212,3225,3238,3251,3263,3276,3288,3301,3313,3325,3337,3349,3361,3373,3384,3396,3407,3419,3430,3441,3452,3463,3474,3485,3495,3506,3516,3527,3537,3547,3557,3567,3577,3587,3597,3607,3616,3626,3636,3645,3654,3664,3673,3682,3691,3700,3709,3718,3726,3735,3744,3752,3761,3769,3778]; let tooltipValues = [98,136,173,211,247,282,317,350,385,417,450,482,512,542,572,602,632,660,689,715,743,770,795,821,848,873,896,920,945,969,991,1015,1036,1059,1080,1101,1124,1144,1165,1185,1205,1225,1244,1263,1281,1301,1318,1336,1355,1373,1390,1406,1423,1441,1458,1473,1490,1506,1521,1536,1551,1566,1581,1596,1611,1626,1640,1653,1668,1681,1695,1708,1721,1735,1808,1838,1866,1895,1923,1951,1978,2006,2033,2060,2086,2111,2136,2161,2186,2211,2235,2258,2283,2306,2328,2351,2373,2396,2418,2438,2461,2481,2501,2523,2543,2562,2582,2602,2622,2642,2661,2678,2697,2716,2733,2752,2770,2787,2805,2822,2838,2856,2872,2888,2905,2921,2937,2952,2968,2983,3000,3015,3030,3045,3058,3073,3087,3102,3117,3131,3143,3157,3172,3185,3198,3212,3225,3237,3251,3262,3276,3287,3301,3312,3325,3337,3348,3361,3372,3383,3396,3407,3418,3430,3441,3452,3462,3473,3485,3495,3506,3516,3527,3537,3547,3557,3567,3577,3587,3597,3607,3616,3626,3636,3645,3653,3663,3672,3682,3691,3700,3708,3717,3726,3735,3743,3752,3761,3768,3777]; for (let I = 0; I < inventoryValues.length; I++) { const inventoryValue = inventoryValues[I]; const tooltipValue = tooltipValues[I]; const convertedValue = Math.floor(convertTo32BitFloat(inventoryValue / 10) * 10); console.log('Skill level', I + 1, 'Inventory', inventoryValue, 'Tooltip', tooltipValue, 'Converted', convertedValue, 'Match?', tooltipValue === convertedValue); } This code can be run in the browser's JavaScript console. 1. We divide the inventoryValue by 10. In JavaScript, all numbers are, by default, stored as 64-bit floating point numbers so this operation alone is very unlikely to lead to a loss of precision. 2. We convert the result to a 32-bit floating point number. This very likely leads to a loss of precision. For example: 9.9 becomes 9.899999618530273 . 3. We multiply by 10 and round down so we can compare the whole numbers (this probably converts the value back to a 64-bit float, but that shouldn't matter). And the results match perfectly with the values from the skill tooltip. In addition, I found out that the very same formulas for the damage bonus of Astral Lord Lore are also used by the focus skill to determine HCALWP and the final combat art level! I'll post my findings soon.
    2 points
  14. Thank you so much, gogo! Hopefully, there will be many more pages to come I don't like posting without adding anything new, but I'm not ready with some of the things I'm working on right now. So I'll just add this for now: I just finished making screenshots of the progression of Astral Lord Lore (1-200) in order to compare the damage stated in the inventory screen and the percentage bonus stated in the skill tooltip. Here are some of the results (skill levels 1-10): On some skill levels the stated damage in the inventory is higher by 10 points, meaning the percentage bonus is actually 0.1% higher. I quickly went trough all of my screenshots and it looks like this is the only kind of difference that can happen. Edit: Ancient Magic, levels 1-3 Combination of Ancient Magic and Astral Lord Lore Ancient Magic, level 3, +8.6% Astral Lord Lore, level 1, +9.8% Total +18.4% Damage 11860 (20 or 0.2% higher)
    2 points
  15. Holy hell, now I can't wait to get to Niobium to get my ass kicked haha. Thank you @idbeholdME for the screens and explanations, will definitely get back to you on my suffering in Niob when the time comes I have a feeling that I might need to level my trader too - in order to make it. @SLD That's some nice quick testing - and that pun was awful, keep them coming I've got to say thank you both so much, I'm learning a ton
    2 points
  16. I just created a new lvl 1 gladiator to test this a bit. went in bronze over the bridge an and let one of those thugs kill me... he took a few hits until my hp were down to basically 0(or1) nad then Gladiator gets "stunned" instead of dying is immune for a short period of time after which the next hit killed him. So you seem to be closer to the truth than I thought and the SB garbage can basically be excluded as the new gladiator had none. Next I sent the gladiator into a niiobium game to repeat the same test. He gets one-shot keels over immediately, slides away yet lies "stunned" on the ground this time. Enemy ignores him, he gets back up only to be instantly knocked over again. He gets up a second time, one-shot a third time and this time he actually dies. I retried this with multiple thugs again and they all ignore him while he's flat on the ground and again he gets knocked unconcious twice before getting killed. Even though these tests don't give enough data to know anything for certain, I'd guess that the threshold has nothing to do with it at all. Wether he got killed slowly or absolutely obliterated he always cheated death the first time. Interesting however is the fact that the one-shot overkills had a "more severe" animation and that this one could occur twice in a row before he actually died. My guess is that the relative amount of overkill somehow factors in here. At least my 3 suicide attempts are further evidence for there to be no "chance" involved. I did no testing wether one is actually damage immune during that time of being stunned. Your dragonfire example suggests that, but I remember it being possible to get killed in this game and some of the more deadly stuff like the poison spit attack from a "tarantula mortis" that could hit you multiple times in a row also have the poison dot afterwards. Maybe there are some things that might buggedly bypass this safety net. Maybe the death safety was only introduced to the game at a later time like with the underworld expansion or sth. Just some ideas... Also want to add the information here, that no testing has been done towards wether all character classes behave the same way when "cheating death". I can only say for sure that a similar mechanic does exist on dwarves. I'm not in the mood of suiciding with all character classes now. Thanks for sharing your experiences that sparked this expedition to shine some more light onto this odd mechanic. If anyone wants to do further testing on this all I can say is "knock yourself out"
    2 points
  17. oooh, Steve, Tacos arent my forte, however for you...anything is possible!! gogo
    2 points
  18. It's always a pleasure to share helpful information and useful knowledge. I'm happy to be of assistance and I appreciate the opportunity to be of service. Now, I demand tacos! (just kidding)
    2 points
  19. With Gladiator, those two are luckily taken care for by Heroic Courage and yes, the main layer of defense comes from the extremely high defense rating it provides. Enemies hitting me are actually chunking me quite badly, but the 35% chance of getting hit does a lot. The most dangerous enemies were actually Nuk-Nuk chieftains IIRC. They have an extremely quick ranged attack that can basically two shot me. Not enough to be unplayable, but a couple quick hits can quickly send me down if I don't quickly leech it back or just perma stun them with the jump. Also the fact that many enemies deal a majority of non-physical damage (like the screen shotted Hell Golem) and non-physical armor is extremely hard to get in reasonable numbers in Sacred 1. Whenever enemies use special attacks (some of which can be multi-hit, like 3 times in a row) every hit does like 12K or more damage to me. Defense works well enough against normal hits, that enemies do most of the time, but their CAs also get a massive built-in attack boos, like the player characters' do, so I have to always pay close attention either way. As for attack, Heroic Courage gives me 6000% extra Attack Rating and Hard Hit CA for example, another extra 1700%, so CA's hit most of the time. The 67% is for normal attacks. I honestly can't imagine playing a weapon character that does not have a built-in CA to boost the rating (like Heroic Courage). Seems it'd be impossible to reach reasonable hit chances for weapons in late Niobium without at least a couple thousand % bonus to it. For reference, these are the stats without Heroic Courage on: Not exactly sure what the mechanism for the death prevention is, but there definitely is one. A single instance of damage can't kill you outright and once you reach a certain health level, like 10% or so hitpoints (no idea what the exact value is), you won't die for like the next second or two no matter what. For example, let a late game Niobium dragon breathe on you and stand in the fire. Your health will basically instantly drop the the minimum level and only after a short bit, you will keel over dead. A single tic of damage chunks like 50% of my HP, so should die pretty much instantly. But I was pretty much always able to run out of it even if I made a mistake in my kiting. The effect also has a cooldown. Seems to be either a certain time period or having to heal to full HP for the effect to "recharge". Probably the former, I always just stood back for a bit whenever that happened. But it definitely can't be exploited by "juggling health" around the threshold constantly. But it is guaranteed, not a chance. I counted on it many times and it has never failed. Was also playing a fully unmodded game too.
    2 points
  20. Never heard this explanation for the odd "1hp self stun slide-away". I once read somewhere that it's a chance to cheat death based on your survival bonus, basically a reward for surviving making it easier to keep your bonus if you've already reached a high amount. That one seemed like a logical explanation, though I have no clue where I read that. How did you come to your explanation? Was there any kind of testing involved or did you hear it from someone else somewhere. I'm so curious now that I have read two differnent explanations. Especially as your version sounds potentially exploitable as the warning_level can be changed in settings.cfg. If you can be onehot from above warning level you'd set it to 99% and if you can't be oneshot that way you'd set it to 1% as you'd only need very little recovery to get back above the threshold to be unkillable again.
    2 points
  21. Happy to see you back Jayce, and you already met Master Hooyaah for your return to Sacred journey, you've joined us all, pretty much Sacred Antiquarians as well Thanks Steve for the tech chops and happy heart! gogo
    2 points
  22. Nope. The full Fallen Angel. Czech Republic and Slovakia to an extent used to be bastions of covermount games. I have tons of full games from gaming magazines, be it LEVEL or Score. From late nineties to mid 2010s. As for the other question, the main thing that stood out for me was the save system. Being able to save to numerous slots, at any place and loading in exactly where you saved instead of in some hub is super convenient. Also felt that there were a bit too many playable characters, which led to loot dillution. The balance also seemed honestly terrible in most aspects, especially in late Niobium. In the expansion area, I mostly had to spam the Gladiator jump because it stuns enemies. Armor seems basically useless compared to the damage enemies do, which they do so much of anyway that you are going to be playing around death safety feature (you can't be killed for a couple of seconds once you get the low health warning) all the time. Split was a pretty interesting mechanic, although can't say I miss it. Definitely intended as just a power-farming thing. Extremely disappointing final boss, a bit better in Underworld. I also found the main story quite uninteresting. Can't honestly remember much from it. I did pretty much everything possible on the Gladiator. He's at level 167, sitting in Niobium Valley of Tears, where I power-farmed since like level 150 before dropping the game. Might come back to it at some later point. I was just at the point of starting to close the gap with enemy levels (who were all in the 200+ range since forever).
    2 points
  23. @Jayce It's most likely that the changes made by the Character Editor have negatively affected your character's play-ability; it's unlikely to have anything to do with options.txt. When you save the changes with the Character Editor it automatically saves a (.bak) copy of your character files and the chest file. Unless you deleted the files, you should look for: hero01.sacred2save.bak and hero01.sacred2.stats.bak and save a copy of each somewhere in another folder. (Or, you might need to use hero02save or hero03save and the corresponding stats files, depending on which numbered character is having the issue you reported.) Then, change the names to the files to: hero01.sacred2save and hero01.sacred2.stats. (To do this just rename them by removing .bak from each.) Always save a copy before making any changes, this is especially true before using the Character Editor tool. Next, copy and paste (replace them) in the Users/HP/Saved Games/Ascaron Entertainment/Sacred 2 folder. Just make sure that you are changing and renaming the correct hero file with which you are having the error issue. It's important to remember that using the Character Editor is a known source of negative issues.* *This is particularly the case when illegal (erroneous) parameters/integers are entered in the editor tool. I hope this advice helps you, sir.
    2 points
  24. I'm surprised by the fact that you don't need sleep, but I think the SP version of this might work with the game running in background, so you can do something else on the computer while farming SB...
    2 points
  25. It's SLD not SDL and certainly not DSL or LSD either. If you can facetank a weak enemy like a wolf in bronze, you can just let it chew on you and go afk to increase SB. If you do it in a SP game you won't drop, in multiplayer you have to but something heavy on a key like a book corner on Ctrl, to prevent disconnect due to "inactivity" Just drop the items in a campaign game and save it if you want to mule something anywhere. The "stash" characters can acquire and distribute items that way independant from game difficulty.
    2 points
  26. Love your enthusiasm xeyp. Welcome to DarkMatters! I'm a big fan of the BM as well and like you, I just loved to poke around and try stuff. Like a Galloping Infernal. Equipped with WIDD for extra damage and just a touch of pain to drop my health to very scary low levels for crazy WIDD boosts on my fireball. Nice to see folks popping in and keeping the spirit alive. Cheers!
    2 points
  27. Well, as for me, my first contact with the series was Sacred 2. A covermount version from a gaming magazine called LEVEL that came out in December 2011: https://archive.org/details/czlevel211dvd Only played it for a bit initially as a Shadow Warrior (stopped at around level 40 or so) but came back to the game in 2013 or 14 and it was then Sacred captured me. My main character was a Pyromancer High Elf. This was all with just Fallen Angel. Then another long break until like 2019-20. Now with the PFP, I have extensively played all characters besides the Dryad and Dragon Mage and have probably several thousand hours on the game. On the other hand, I only played Sacred 1 for the first time a couple years ago. Just ran a Gladiator into Niobium, finished it and... never really came back. Tried Seraphim for a bit but dropped her after a couple dozen hours and that was it. Not really feeling the urge to play S1 when Sacred 2 exists.
    2 points
  28. That all depends on animation timings. Weapons, CAs and their combinations have different looking and fast animations. Daggers happen to be a very fast weapon most of the time and some CAs just use a regular weapon swing with some weapons which happens to be very fast. You can check everything in animation.txt. IIRC, the Hybrid CAs all use just a regular weapon swing and don't have custom animations. So the faster the weapon, the higher the theoretical maximum attacks per second (if regen time is shorter than animation length at capped attack speed, or using regen per hit).
    2 points
  29. Hi xeyp, welcome to the FDM I've been roaming this place since 2007, and played S1 religiously in my late teens, early 20s. It really is a shame you felt intimidated to play S1 online because that has been my most positive online experience - maybe because Sacred was a bit of an obscure game and the people you would find online time after time were as into the game as you (and I) were. The Sacred International Forum (SIF) was very active - I spent a lot of time there - and it was a really fun and welcoming community. Sadly, as with most things online, they dissapear. Thankfully these games can still be enjoyed offline. Maybe I should jot down my first experience with S1 as well somewhere. Your post was a very interesting read, and resembles mine quite a lot if I'm honest. Stick around, we're quite a nice bunch of people
    2 points
  30. thanks for the high praise. Sadly SLD is almost blind and it takes a lot of time for him to read and write posts. Since the appearence of Maneus I've been spending multiple hours per day trying to keep up with whats going on but I certainly will have to dial that down again soon. It's also a bug abuse so it gives op items at low levels but doesn't neccessarily add more fun to the game. Just like you can dupe items by dropping them in a campaign save and repeatedly reloading it etc... If you're trying to make a character as perfect as possible these are shortcuts for getting there. If you want to enjoy the journey things like that will ruin it for you. Levelling in this game looks the same at level 50, 100, 150 and 200 so if you take away most of the other stuff that changes along the way the game can become quite boring. I have already answered that. To clarify: The 471 I pulled out of my arse. There is a maximum from bonus points somewhere around 250 my guess is 255 and points actually spent are added on top even though the inventory screen can't show a number higher than 255. As you can put a maximum of 216 hard points in I added 216 and my guess of 255 and I'm getting 471. Its inaccurate and there have been no precise measurements made for this. Back when I played sacred 1 more I didn't know about this at all which is why I have never pursued more accurate data. There's a unique amulet that gives easily more than 50 points to trading so yes you can basically cap the skill with a weapon swap. But the skill would still only go to around level 256 as the amount of bonus you can apply is capped, see the paragraph above and the post you were answering to. So if you want macimum effect of the trading skill assuming that trading skill above 255 does something (which we don't know as trading skil has no numbers on it) you have to put in hard points. Well all reasonable builds take 1. Constitution to prevent being killed before the next Leech instance fills you back up. 2. All builds that have Armor Lore take it to reduce movement penalty and increase resist same thought as with constitution. Battle Mage is the only class that doesn't have armor lore. 3. Every character takes either magic lore or weapon lore. They increase damage multiplicatively. You should never take both. Hybrid builds are always worse than at least one of their halves. 4. Almost every character takes at least one skill that lowers regeneration times for whatever they are using. Even Hellpower demons will chose at least one to get the hellpower regen down giving more space on items for other mods. The only exception are ranged characters that aren't woodelves using multi hit or hard hit combat arts. These are bugged with ranged weapons and unaffected by concentration. These skills also don't increase in regne time no matter how many runes you eat. Example would be the famous crossbow gladiator. There's a guide for it though the writer of that guide had no clue about these things and never understood why his build was so op So now we are basically down to only 4 skills to chose. Among those are agility and parrying as only other defensive choices, weapon focus skills, trading, forge lore for dwarves and extra combat art regenration skills. And then there are the useless skills riding and disarming. "Sacred:skills" has a nice categorized list for all of those btw. For the question wether there is always room for trading the short answer is usually yes in some cases you have to dump parrying or agility but ther are certainly exceptions like attack based dwarves that want smithing another regen skill for stuff like dwarven steel and a weapon focus skill they'd lose both parrying and agility. Bold all elemental battle mages are might also be in that category. I hope that helps putting into perspective which skills trading would have to compete with, how little diversity buids crafted for perfection actually have etc. Trading is extremely powerful if you don't already have gear muled don't dupe jewelry for socketing etc. Wether the quality of traded items can exceed the possible quality of drops in the wild is unknown to me yet it is certainly far easier/faster to buy a lot of good stuff than to find it. Good luck beating my 140% reg special moves darkelf chest armor with 4 sockets Another thng to consider however is that by chosing trade you will be standing in town for a lot of time instead of actually playing the game. It also kinda devalues drops as you will basically never find something better than what you've bought. So in the long run it's quite an anti-fun mechanic as well. The "guides" of those people landed there the same way yours did. The build guides were mostly written by people that like to write their journey down and share it, not neccessarily people that know much about the game mechanics(see the crossbow gladiator). Mechanics guides are a bit higher quality usually but even the attack speed guide from wolfe's Lair measures speed from "very slow" to "very fast"... Holy Hannah&#33; kind of metric is that? The standard unit for scientific accuracy is "1 Maneus" and most of the information that we have on the sacred games doesn't even reach a tenth of that. That's why it's so exciting for me to see Maneus do his thing. Everything he touches creates new infornation the sacred community did not have before. He has the holy word, but so far only for Sacred 2 damage calculations.
    2 points
  31. Sorry, I meant the Focus skill. I was so busy contemplating whether to include that info, I never noticed that I mixed them up. You are absolutely right. The item modifier Attack Speed +X% does not increase the execution speed of weapon-based combat arts. Only the speed of left-click attacks. That means that Dashing Alacrity correctly shows the two bonuses separately. In my previous test, I did use a Weapon Lore skill to test whether attack speed worked on weapon-based combat arts... My tests show that Combat Discipline does affect hybrid combat arts. I don't know why the wiki states that it doesn't. https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Hybrid_Damage_Based_Combat_Arts I'll post some examples later. I need to amend my previous posts
    2 points
  32. I share in your beliefs And the difference is so huge that I doubt it's just in our heads. As with the half question, we don't have metrics to measure this accurately but if you ever equip one of your gold level chars with about +40 to trading above its character level you will probably notice the amount of high quality items etc to be nowhere near the lvl 1 dwarf. Again a feeling but afaik we don't have anything better. I can't come up with anything better than your dwarf's approach. If no +trading/+">1 to all skills" items can be bought that's probably it. It should help to do the shopping in niob difficulty which you can reach by joining a dedicated gameserver but not pressing start yet and then changing the difficulty to niob on the gameserver(gameserver.exe in the sacred underworld folder). For exceeding skill lvl 255 it seems that it actually works more like the combat art levels. Though the Skill never shows a higher number than 255 you can have ~255 bonus points to a skill(but not more) that add to whatever actual skill level you have from hard points. meaning the actual cap is around 471 as you can only put in points up to your level. That the effects scale beyond 255 can be proven for skills like weapon lore that do state numbers. Does it work on trading? All we can do is guess. What I can say with almost absolute certainty is that you will never beat the lvl1 dwarf trading "ratio". That now already covered question 3 as well. (the"~255" bonus points I haven't measured accurately enough, could be 250 or 254 but they're certainly capped around that point and as combat arts can get exactly 255 bonus points I just guess it's the same with skills)
    2 points
  33. Well I admit, that sounds like a good reason. I just love how you already squeezed a "yet" in there
    2 points
  34. Now I'm really worried about that final version. When I first looked at the Addendum, I thought it was really bold to take on things like the item tiers and drastically change the balance with capping mitigation etc. It certainly looked very different from the D2F/EE approach. When I tried it out I found it certainly deserved that "Beta" tag. There is impressive stuff like -spawning on your mount and riding into caves. Objectively a great change. -Capping mitigation certainly makes it a bit more challenging to create a playable character. Not neccessarily a bad thing. -%Leech based on current Life? Not sure if it works but it certainly remains king of all damage mods. -Giving spells a chance to apply special mods that ususally only work with attacks? Good thought but still not balanced. Spells still suck, reliability would probably have been better than a chance. -Splitting SP/MP chars so they can't "farm" the other campaign's quests for attribute/skill points, yet recognizing the value of an "endgame" option to further scale your char and implementing a repeatable quest in "Pandemonium" mode? Good thought but horrible execution. The quest requires you to find and kill 130+ Bosses in the world and that would take many hours to finish while at the same time loading basically every tileset. The game is guaranteed to crash long before that happens. There's also a bug where Shadow Campaign characters only have to kill one of the bosses on that list... well that ain't balanced either. -Allowing CAs to eventually take all upgrades. A bit more Imba for some CAs than others but generally I like it. -Reducing the number of item tiers? Well first I thought maybe he knows what he's doing. Sounded not that bad... playtesting revealed all kinds of odd stuff. The recreation of "random" uniques aka rares that you have to confirm you want to sell. And later in the game almost every trash item requires that kind of confirmation. That is not a good thing. The same unique rings popping up hundreds of times because they somehow end up the go to uniques the game likes the most. First I thought it was due to low level. It seemed all the other items had higher minimum levels so that it took some time till sets and other uniques could drop. But even at far higher levels the 2 go to unique rings spawn at a sickening rate compared to other unique and set pieces. Oh and the special "Magical Glimmer" loot hiding places you can open by walking over now spawn lots of unique stuff but show a significant difference in Number of items they spawn between different character classes etc... The loot system overhaul has definitely not been tested enough to be implemented into anything but a "beta". Thats just the stuff I remember right now, haven't played it in a while. Also this is not meant to be bashing the addendum beta. For how boldly it tackles things noone has ever touched before it works remarkably well and it's still a beta, right? But when you start thinking about applying some of it's changes to D2F's final version, I hope you chose those wisely. As I see you mention the SP/MP split I hope you don't kill the repeatable hellfire arena as an endgame grind. It is the better version of the addendum's pandemonium quest. It puts all the bosses in one place, creates a challenge as you have to fight multiple at once and only takes around half an hour to an hour to finish so the game client can actually finish it with a good non-crash rate. The existence of the Hellfire arena grind also means one has to build characters in a way that they can beat it reliably and as fast as possible. An interesting challenge and a very Diablo 2 kind of endgame, farming Bosses for loot and power While we're all waiting for Dimitrius to return, why don't you release the current version as a "beta" just in case your current buglist is incomplete. I'm sure I'd find some time to take a look at it and your buglist certainly doesn't make it seem any worse than the current release version. As a comparison: Conviction has a messed up tooltip that's showing as flat value instead of percent. -> Currently there are certainly many things with messed up tooltips like that. eg the weapon lore skills actually grant additive attack rating not %. A tooltip mess up from the CMPatch that fixed other skill tooltips but broke these... Confuse: Factions don't reset after duration expires, so enemies keep attacking each other forever. -> Noone uses these Kind of CAs anyway as enemy dmg is so low compared to their hp and the players dps, they can hit each other for ages. All conversion skills are too weak to matter. So I guess "fixing" this bug would only make it worse... Rainbow Facet jewel: "physical to best" damage conversion is not working. -> well currently they just don't have this mod so they're fine. But I guess if they now say they should do this and don't, I agree this is actually worse than current release Can still enter singleplayer with a multiplayer character (they are meant to be exclusive now). -> same as current release Werewolf/Werebear have broken attack animations, only using one animation instead of two. -> currently changing forms stacks certain buff mods quickly granting max attack speed and infinite %attack damage bonus to both the forms and the not shapeshifted druid... Assassin's idle "deactivating sounds" play constantly, even when he's just standing around. -> well that could be annoying as hell... Not sure how current release performs here... But if you at least fixed the broken splash damage on Dragonflight I guess it still would be better than current release Cloak of Shadows - even melee attacks don't break the effect anymore, so it's essentially broken and OP. -> There was always something that didn't break cloak so it was always broken and OP... I wouldn't consider that much worse than current release If your buglist is anywhere near complete this version would be really awesome already. Please consider letting us test this just in case there are more bugs in there that you could still fix without dimitrius' help.
    2 points
  35. To answer the question about whether BaseCombatArtLevel includes equipment bonuses or not (because I wasn't sure either), I made the following test: To summarize: We have a combat art level of 51 (HCALWP) and increase it by +6 through equipment, resulting in a final level of 54.2. If BaseCombatArtLevel is 54, then the calculation result becomes 35709.09 (1811.09 higher than the reference value) If BaseCombatArtLevel is 55, then the calculation result becomes 35071.42 (1173.42 higher than the reference value) If BaseCombatArtLevel is 56, then the calculation result becomes 34456.14 (558.14 higher than the reference value) If BaseCombatArtLevel is 57, then the calculation result becomes 33862.06 (35.94 lower than the reference value) If BaseCombatArtLevel is 58, then the calculation result becomes 33288.13 (609.87 lower than the reference value) Given that 57 is the closest to the reference value, I assume that it is the correct value and that BaseCombatArtLevel includes the bonus from equipment. For idbeholdME's case, it doesn't matter what the BaseCombatArtLevel is, because the part ceil(CharacterLevel / 3) would still be lower. Unfortunately, the difference between the calculated result and the reference value is bigger than I initially thought. Sometimes the result is lower, sometimes it is higher, but the difference becomes more pronounced as the numbers get bigger. It could still be due to rounding error(s), as small differences can have a compounding effect, but it bothers me. Edit: If we don't round down BaseSpellDamage, but instead use it as is (491.75), then we get 33913.79 (15.79 higher than the reference value). If we want to blame rounding errors, then our result needs to be higher than the reference value. The displayed final damage is 34390. If we remove the displayed damage bonus, we get 492. It is strange for a value to be rounded up. Using 492 in the calculation results in an even higher number than with 491.75.
    2 points
  36. Careful there what you call "BaseSpellDamage" is actually what Maneus formulas would call "(BaseSpellDamage * (1 + SumPercentageBonuses)", so your value is misleading even though you later use it correctly. You don't give any explanation as to how you get this. I guess you have bonus points. But you would have to use the full number of points pre reduction acording to this: so your calculation is off and as I don't know the number of bonus points you have I can't tell what the correct values would be. I do not understand how you can come to this conclusion. At higher Levels a character is expected to have access to higher attribute values. But also:Higher Level weapons have a higher base damage. So for attacks if you had no "diminishing returns" on the attribute effectiveness 1000 str would add the same relative amount on lvl 1 and a lvl 200 weapon yet its supposed to give about the same absolute amount. For the Spell Calculation the Character Level/ CA Level is used to "diminish" the relative value of Int. For easy example assuming the Spell Base Damage works like one of Maneus' examples: [BaseDamageperLVL=BaseDamage/2]: at a fixed Character Level of 200 and fixed ~800 Int you would always get around "10 Levels" of the CA added in Damage through Int so Ca Lvl 1 ->Dmg of Ca lvl 11 Ca Lvl 2 ->Dmg of Ca lvl 12 Int bonus remaining the exact same value until your CA LVL surpasses 67(I.e. charLVL/3). than the absolute Int effect slowly Increases to double at ca LVL 134 etc. So the relative effect in this scenario slowly went from a factor 11 to a factor 2 (from 1-67) and then reamains around the same (from 67-134) well now I do undestand your conclusion If you only look at the end portion of the scaling it reamins the same in relative bonus. And it actually increases in effectiveness if you allow combat arts over penalty levels or high CaLVL + low CharLVL scenarios. This however does not yet cover the question which one is "better" or any good at all. Because always adding like 20% of your Normal damage (relative) isn't necessarily better tha always adding an arbitrary absolute value. The absolute one could just be "diminishing" from relative 500% to relative 25%. And then there is also the fact while you can't scale SpellBaseDamage without raising the CA lvl and you don't want to limit your Character LVL it is still possible to raise the BaseWeaponDamage of a lowLVL weapon by socketing high LVL rings into it, bypassing all the diminishing effect while retaining some of the increase that comes with higher lvl weapons.In cases of very high attribute values this can significantly increase the dmage because of its absolute benefits. I have no access to a standard base game but the question of how "useful" attribute stacking is could be calculated in general by multiplying that slowly diminishing factor for weapon damage per Level with the base damage of wepons of the corresponding Lvl and then run some numbers on realistically achievable attribute values on certain character scenarios to compare the flat values of StrBonus with the weapon Base damage to calculate a relative value in endgame. This brings me back to the earlier example on the Int Spell Bonus. Its the same for weapon bonuses just that the section for (CALvL 1-67) is here for (weapon lvl 1-255). Just with the freak effect of underleveled weapons which you could call a bug. In all other terms its just the same, double Int gives double relative bonus, so does double strength. To determine whether the bonus of strength is "high enough" to matter in relative terms we need some exact values. So now that I've rambled on in written form for over 90 minutes I'll just post it and let others find out whether there is anything useful in here
    2 points
  37. Seems to check out. An advanced example from my character with big numbers with a multi-element spell: 171 character level, 125.8 Cobalt Strike level (125 runes used), with the Heavy Damage bronze mod (increased magic damage) +241.6% bonus Physical and Magic damage, Combat Discipline +271.8%, Delphic Arcania Lore +398.2% Intelligence = 1409 1 + SumPercentageBonuses = 10.116 BaseSpellDamage = 20846,7999 (15190.6914 for the Magic portion, 5656.1085 for the Physical portion) Magic portion - (940 + (470*125.8)) / 40 = 15190.6914 Physical portion - (350 + (175*125.8)) / 40 = 5656.1085 1409*20846*334*0.00004 = 392 410 392 410 / (57 + 1) = 6765.69 Intelligence bonus displayed in-game: 6751 vs 6765 from the formula. Probably within the internal rounding error margin. The formula number is roughly 0.2% higher than what is displayed on the tooltip. With very high survival bonus and attribute values, the bonus increases the attributes at somewhat irregular chunks. The discrepancy is most likely caused by that. The internal rounding the game performs in the background will forever remain a mystery, but it also means that any and all calculations in the game are subject to at least some margin of error. Either way, Intelligence is not subject to diminishing returns like Strength and Dexterity are because of item levels. So it is actually pretty good at boosting spell damage, unlike the other two attributes, which only keep losing effectiveness the higher your weapon level is.
    2 points
  38. Finally, we have uncovered another big mystery! I think SLD is going to like this one For spell-based combat arts, how the bonus damage from intelligence is calculated The formula is: IntelligenceDamageBonus = Intelligence * floor(BaseSpellDamage * (1 + SumPercentageBonuses)) * attrSdam_fact * 0.00004 / (min(BaseCombatArtLevel, ceil(CharacterLevel / 3)) + 1) Where: - IntelligenceDamageBonus - The value shown in the tooltip when you hover over the intelligence attribute (Combat Art Damage +X). - Intelligence - The total intelligence value (after Survival Bonus). - BaseSpellDamage - From spells.txt. Examples below. - SumPercentageBonuses - Sum of all percentage bonuses (bonus from the combat art itself, Aspect Lore, Ancient Magic, Combat Discipline, Rings with +X% damage of the same element). - attrSdam_fact - From balance.txt. Default value is 334 (unmodded game). - BaseCombatArtLevel - The base combat art level before being reduced by the penalty. For example: Out highest combat art level without penalty is 51, but we have used 56 runes, resulting in a final combat art level of 53.7. We must use the base level (56) in the formula. I assume that it's the same when the combat art level is boosted trough equipment. And with that, the formula for our final damage becomes: FinalDamage = floor(BaseSpellDamage * (1 + SumPercentageBonuses)) + IntelligenceDamageBonus Where: - FinalDamage - The combat art damage shown in the inventory screen or in the tooltip when hovering over the combat art itself. Finding the base spell damage Each individual combat art has its own specific rules. Lets look at a few of them. Example 1: The shadow warrior's Skeletal Fortification Example 2: The seraphim's Radiant Pillar Example 3: The high elf's Frost Flare Example 4: The high elf's Ancestral Fireball Additional notes: - Round down. If the BaseSpellDamage is calculated as 10.5 - round it down to 10. After that apply any percentage bonuses, and then round down again. - The formula is accurate, but due to some weird roundings, the displayed value is sometimes off by a few points. By increasing the precision (add a few zeroes to the end of attrSdam_fact), then the discrepancies disappear. Some cases require higher precision than others. I have no solution for now, but I might look into it in the future. - I tried to see if any other parameters from balance.txt affect the calculations. There was no visible difference after changing TopLevelCalc or BasepointsMultiplier, but there was a significant difference after changing SpellBaseDamage. Phew I'll add some examples later.
    2 points
  39. Oh don't worry, I know I'd go this route: itemtype.txt->weargroup->itemtype->model->surface->surface.txt->texture First of all you need to make a decision. If you're fine with always wearing the same armor ingame, then there's no need to remove all the textures for all high elf armor items, you just need to remove the textures of those items you want to wear ingame. It's possible to force drop an item. If you want a smooth gameplay experience however, there's no way around removing all the item textures of all items you could possibly wield. But there's an issue: Not all items are single hero weargroup. There are items with e.g. WEARGROUP_DEFAULT which refers to a hardcoded list; it's not possible to know which heroes are supposed to be able to wield the item without either ingame knowledge about the item or knowledge about the dll files. You need to iterate over all itemtypes with WEARGROU_HIGHELVE and all itemtypes with WEARGROUP_DEFAULT which contain armor items that can be worn by the high elf. Sacred 2 uses the granny 2 format for saving 3d models. This data format does contain information about the name of the surface the model expects. For your purpose we can categorize itemtypes into two groups: The one which overwrite their surfaces and those which don't. For the first kind it's easy to find the surface as it's literally scripted in itemtype.txt: newItemType = { -- standard info renderfamily = "RENDERFAM_ARMOR", family = "FAMILY_ARMOR", subfamily = "SUBFAM_ARMOR_HELMET", classification = "CLF_HELMET_CROWN", flags = "FLAG_HASHAIR + FLAG_HASPREVIEWIMAGE", weargroup = "WEARGROUP_INVALID", -- 3d model + animation info model0Data = { name = "models/heroes/highelve/sets/pearl/a_helve-pearl-helmet.GR2", surface0 = { mgr.surfGetID ("helve-pearl-helmet_a"), mgr.surfGetID ("helve-ninehells-helmet_a") }, surface1 = { mgr.surfGetID ("helve-pearl-helmet-fx_a"), mgr.surfGetID ("helve-ninehells-helmet-fx_a") }, user = "WEARGROUP_HIGHELVE", }, -- logic bounding box logicBox = { minx=-5.824, miny=-9.246, minz=60.793, maxx=5.836, maxy=-0.659, maxz=80.091, }, dangerclass = 0, } mgr.typeCreate(13247, newItemType); "helve-pear-helmet_a" is the surface the model expects and it gets overwritten by "helve-ninehells-helmet_a". Searching in surface.txt, Example: newSurface = { name = "helve-ninehells-helmet_a", texture0Name = "maps/heroes/highelve/sets/ninehells/a_helve-ninehells-helmet_d.tga", texture1Name = "maps/heroes/highelve/sets/ninehells/a_helve-ninehells-helmet_sg.tga", texture2Name = "maps/heroes/highelve/sets/pearl/a_helve-pearl-helmet_n.tga", texture3Name = "fx/lava_fx.tga", flags = SURFACE_FLAG_MASKED + SURFACE_FLAG_DOUBLESIDED, shader = obj_fx_lava, } mgr.surfCreate(newSurface); There are your texture names for this itemtype. Easy to find. However there are a lot of items which don't get their surfaces overwritten, EXAMPLE: newItemType = { -- standard info renderfamily = "RENDERFAM_ARMOR", family = "FAMILY_ARMOR", subfamily = "SUBFAM_ARMOR_LEG", classification = "CLF_LEG_ORNAMENT", flags = "FLAG_EQUIPCUT + FLAG_HASPREVIEWIMAGE", weargroup = "WEARGROUP_INVALID", -- 3d model + animation info model0Data = { name = "models/heroes/highelve/sets/matrix/a_helve-matrix-legs.GR2", user = "WEARGROUP_HIGHELVE", }, -- logic bounding box logicBox = { minx=-6.051, miny=-5.054, minz=5.107, maxx=6.064, maxy=4.134, maxz=36.774, }, dangerclass = 0, } mgr.typeCreate(13318, newItemType); For those items you need to get grannyviewer to find out which surface the model expects. I already linked you to a post of mine which does contain a link to a version of grannyviewer in a previous post. To quote myself: It seems that you didn't read this as you later asked me this: Just go and get it, the link's right there
    2 points
  40. Now this is breaking some new ground. Don't think it was ever specifically documented, how the various balance.txt parameters affected the weapon and attribute damage calculations. Looking at the itemLevelMultiplier table, it's no wonder attribute scaling does next to nothing in the late game. IIRC, in vanilla Sacred 2, without Ice & Blood, the attribute scaling was much better in general. Could probably be interesting to compare the values of these parameters between the versions. I think the itemLevelMultiplier was not present at all before, so it was probably 1 for all item levels. Or the values got massively lower in I&B due to some formula change.
    2 points
  41. Another breakthrough! Thank you, idbeholdME, for telling me about attrWdam_fact - that was key! How the bonus damage from strength is calculated: The formula is: DamageBonus = Strength * AverageBaseDamage * attrWdam_fact * ItemLevelMultiplier / BasepointsMultiplier Where: - DamageBonus - The value shown in the tooltip when you hover over the strength attribute (Weapon Damage +X) - Strength - The total strength value (after Survival Bonus). - AverageBaseDamage - The base fist damage OR the average base damage of the weapon. - attrWdam_fact - From balance.txt. Default value is 250 (unmodded game). - BasepointsMultiplier - From balance.txt. Default value is 500 (unmodded game). - ItemLevelMultiplier - A special multiplier that involves the item level and TopLevelCalc from balance.txt. For fists the item level is equal to the character level. See the table below: ItemLevelMultiplier table How to get these numbers: I'm sure the values from the table above are produced from a mathematical function, but I'm not that good at math to find it. It certainly involves the value TopLevelCalc from balance.txt (default value 200). Changing that value produces drastically different results for ItemLevelMultiplier. Some other notes: BasepointsMultiplier has two roles: one is to act as a divisor in this formula, but the other is to multiply the base weapon damage of weapons (excluding base fists damage). For its role in this formula,, setting it to 0 is no different than setting it to 1. I assume this is done to avoid division by 0. But because of its second role, we shouldn't be modifying it. The ItemLevelMultiplier table is not affected by character class or difficulty setting. The calculated damage bonus can contain a fractional part (e.g. 10.8), but it is shown as 10 in the tooltip. In other words, it is rounded down. But this might be just for presentation. Will have to test. There are a few very specific cases, where there is a discrepancy between the calculated result and the value shown in-game. For example: Enough for now Edit: The formula for dexterity or intelligence is absolutely the same! Just use dexterity or intelligence instead of strength.
    2 points
  42. Thank you for the update, Vishanka; there's no reason to apologize, as we are relieved to know that you are doing better. I have had similar symptoms which were triggered by a subluxation of certain bones causing peripheral neuropathy. A Doctor of Osteopathy (D.O.) or a chiropractor (D.C.) can often treat a patient with immediate improvement on the first visit. Of course, your situation could be caused by another neurological condition. However, you might want to consider a consultation, just to see what can be done for pain relief and a remediation of the underlying condition. Nevertheless, whatever you decide, we are here to support you and wish you all the best, and we hope for a complete and speedy recovery! After all, you are The Beautifier of Ancaria; all the esteemed rights and privileges to which that designation entitles you to are well-earned, not the least of which is our gratitude and respect.
    2 points
  43. Hello, reporting back. My left arm isn't doing too well, it's pretty weak and I begin to assume I might have some other condition in it, tendinitis or something, hardly can use the whole arm, it's definitely sore. The medication I take has been quite harsh but so far my other muscles have not went worse, I really was scared to get fully paralyzed. The doctos assumed GBS which totally can paralyze you, many things I got fit to that but they have have not been able to prove it with a spinal tap. The upside is that GBS usually cures itself, even if you end up completely paralyzed for a while. Usually the weakness reaches its peak around week 4 and I'm at week 3. If my left arm has an additional different problem it would be very soothing as I'm doing otherwise alright, I can do short walks, I can sit for longer periods of time. The other muscles have not declined further I'd say. I'm not working currently and don't know whether I can return to work because I'm driving a lot and because of the weakness I can't drive safely. Unfortunately I also have trouble writing or gaming with my left hand doing quite badly, but nevertheless I'm cautiously hopeful that I actually might recover. Sorry for dumping my health report.
    2 points
  44. Character editor. Also, the effectiveness of the attributes on weapons should be adjustable in balance.txt with attrWdam_fact, which is what the mods which increased the effect of attributes did IIRC.
    2 points
  45. It is. Thank you. Man, you got energy. I only suggested to make new posts better and you went over all the old ones.
    2 points
  46. Thank you for your input I've added spoilers and tried to make some explanations clearer, including the formulas. It should hopefully be much better now. Of course, there is always room for improvement. I'll take another go at it later.
    2 points
  47. That is correct though two identical weapons on different levels are kinda impossible. The Idea here is that higher weapons do higher damage and the bonus added from attribute is based on the weapons current damage. So that level offset is there to prevent the same amount of attribute to give the same relative amount of damage on higher lvls because higher levels also mean higher attributes. To exploit this mechainc you can: a) use low level weapons with socketed high lvl dmg rings (the weapons level then shows higher, but the calculation is based on the original low level) or b) use a weapon with really high damage (I.e. a bfg summoned while selecting an empty slot adds the buff damage onto the weapon itself which is a lot more than any other weapon can achieve. Don't make the mistake tto summon in with a non empty weapon set equipped it won't be added then) Possible yet unlikely as the incrorrect tooltip is still in EE, D2F and the Addendum. Same guys work so I doubt the tooltip fix made it only through to one mod. How would you even measure this? Did you keep a couple hundred points for testing once? otherwise a few points here or ther ewouldn't make much of adifference. I know EE,D2F and the addendum claim to buff the attribute effects so it's possible that in normal games/PFP versions you might be correct that it ain't worth it. pfp would also not give extra attribute points, while the other mods I mentioned all add some kind of infinite bonus. cm patch changes lighsabers to willpower so shadow warriors can use a buff to get a couple thousand there which probably wouldn't be in pfp either but if you really want to test attribute effect on weapons staff attacks with a dryad(semi-buff) or dragon mage(buff) should still work. And one point for Maneus: Could you look into collapsing the testdata somehow? Maybe with a conclusion sentance for each test. Currently its kinda hard to read/find the correct numbers to check. It seems so cluttered with data, and I think some spoilers or similar would clean it up while giving the same amount of information. Just a selfish suggestion for future posts from someone whith really bad eyesight.
    2 points
  48. Ahh, Steve.. i was stumped here for a few seconds not knowing what to type...that dang piece of chocolate cake... Truffles -> Black Truffle oil chips they ARE a truetrue!! Brought these for Ammamma two times in a row...the taste profile is unlike anything I've eaten before.it just tastes...tastey ? Ammamma's gone through two bags...and loves to watch Hell's Kitchen while slowly snacking on these...she has Da Powah!! gogo
    2 points
  49. 2 points
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