Runes and Max Combat Art Level - Changes in Ice & Blood

[Chrona 82]

Hey,

in Ice&Blood we get a new "feature"

 

You can pump only 199 runes in a ca- if you pump the next one your ca will be level 0 with 0 runes...

It's good for resetting a ca- but .....(

 

Thread in german SF:

http://forum.sacred-game.com/showthread.php?t=68061

 

Is this a bug or a feature... we don't know this...I'll try to get an answer...

[Chareos Rantras 0]

Does this also occur when boosting it with + CA ?

 

 

I think it's a bug, not sure tho I think there was something similar in Sacred 1?

 

 

cheers!

Chareos Rantras

[Chrona 82]

Does this also occur when boosting it with + CA ?

 

No, only if you use 200 runes

[soldats 0]

this is the final nail in the coffin for me

 

what's next? a 10 letter limit for character names?

ridiculous

 

I'm saying goodbye to sacred2

[Dobri 55]

Man... Soldats was a bit expletitive, but he's right. So now we can't pump acute mind like crazy, we can't pump up the BFG like crazy, we can't pump up the battle stance like crazy, we can't pump grand invigoration like crazy... we can't pump ANY buff.

 

To sum it up:

all skills were nerfed

deathblow was nerfed

runes were nerfed

 

What we do now for caster builds? stock up on + all Combat Arts and pray like hell that our regen times won't go up?

 

The three things that make a build have been nerfed. I wonder what's next...

[Chrona 82]

You're right...we can't boost the buffs like crazy...

 

I've problems with my old toons and have to buy tons of new equip

BUT:

my level 94 DM have now all 3 Buffs level ~60 with only 1 rune in it

we've to change our playstyle. I use a special gear to cast the buffs

 

The game is harder now and more tricky, but now its a lot of more fun too....

Niob is really hard and you'll loose your godmode

[gogoblender 3,070]

To sum it up:

all skills were nerfed

deathblow was nerfed

runes were nerfed

 

What we do now for caster builds?

 

 

I know, it looks like a lot of the methods we were using before add-on have been changed. There`s certainly going to be some completely new re-designs on builds to make them godly again. Now I`m completely curious as to how new builds will be specced.

 

You're right...we can't boost the buffs like crazy...

 

we've to change our playstyle. I use a special gear to cast the buffs

 

The game is harder now and more tricky, but now its a lot of more fun too....

Niob is really hard and you'll loose your godmode

 

 

I was using boost gear for my buffs as well, but with plus skills rings gone, I may have to be as creative as you to get the levels up high again.

 

Chrona, it looks like you`re re-buildling again very well, even with the hundreds of hours you`ve put into all your past builds. lol, we`re gonna need guides from you on how to respec!

 

 

gogo

[Spunky 16]

What the hell are they thinking when they do stuff like this, are they trying to scare off the small player base that still are playing? almost all buffs with my high level SW's and HE's have over 200 runes into them, with one char I have over 600 runes into Grim Resilience that gives me +40K HP, and with my HE with 1000 into Grand Invogaration + 350 into both Incadescent Skin and Fire Demon would be useless with this pathetic nerf.

 

This "fix" is rendering high level toons uplayable, way to go devs

 

The buffs gonna be so pathetically weak from now on, and the time that it takes to gather all the runes again is making me sick

[Katran 0]

Will this apply to existing builds as well. Since my 200 HE has both IS and GI over 200.

[Chrona 82]

Will this apply to existing builds as well. Since my 200 HE has both IS and GI over 200.

 

DONT pump any new runes in it

 

@gogo

I'm level 96 in niob now (DM level 50/90 are traders).

I can post my build- but first I've to kill all bosses in niob.

 

btw:

totemonlybuild works great

dw-int-staff I've to buy some new gear

Novagirl->unplayable

Hunterdryad level 200->

pyraHE-> its my level 164 trader now

 

new builds:

-new Hunterdryad

-elemental-DM

-Berserk

-Naturedry with staff (vine and shooting staff)

[Chareos Rantras 0]

So we can really establish the fact that the CA reset ISN'T a bug but a game feature? Or do we just wait?

 

 

 

cheers!

Chareos Rantras

[Chrona 82]

So we can really establish the fact that the CA reset ISN'T a bug but a game feature? Or do we just wait?

 

 

 

cheers!

Chareos Rantras

 

I asked Anca but there is no dev to answer this question...

I wrote today a pm to Peter Luber, maybe he can help us

Edited September 3, 2009 by Chrona

[gogoblender 3,070]

...hope it`s a bug, hope it`s a bug, hope it`s a bug, hope it`s a bug...

 

 

gogo

[chattius 2,527]

Only my Alchemy, weaponskill less Melee elf was affected, but she was hit hard:

I didn't want to be called by my wife and my daughter that I prefer to play half naked characters. So I was only using yellow armour on her to make her look like a gladiatrix. In difference to set stuff, you can't really predict what you will get on yellow armours. So I read each rune into the combat arts I needed. She is Single Player Lan Parties, so the she can't reset magic coup it seems, she just can't eat more runes once she is above the limit.

With +allSkills halved she is now way beyond her malus in Magic Coup, so that I can do now 2 left clicks for one magic coup. The build has no tactic lore since it was useless for fast magic coup. I am forced to reduce defense gear for more damage. I use meteor now (which I had luckily modified for stun, duration and quicker) to have a bit saver playstyle. I think I can rescue the character, I like challenges more than fast leveling, because it trains my brain and not my hand to eye coordination. (Eye surgery and hand surgery this year)

 

I was not restarting my new dragon mage after I noticed that the ideas I had for it failed:

Do long lasting whirlwinds and transform into a dragon and have the whirlwinds still around you for more damage. At transforming you loose all active combat arts (the whierlwinds vanish), buffs, trophy effects, bonus from your equipment, ..... Its like transforming in a new character, leaving all behind you for a minute.

So first thoughts of starting the character new.

I had alchemy on the build because I wanted to use it to unlock riding and test if a dragon mage can be played on a horse, with whirlwinds casted before mounting. But the Horse-Combat Arts are still untouched in the AddOn and in difference to a dryad the dragon mage looses its intelligence boosting CA at mounting, because it is a buff.

I was considering restart again.

I planed a last 20 minutes with the character (currently all I can spend a day) , transformed into a dragon and was trying to hit an enemy with left clicks while his dragon breath was recharging. I was not hitting and hammered T ( my key for trollteeth= attack value trophy) which I was used from my alchemy melee elf. I was buffed when I noticed the trophy aura appeared. You have to know, in dragon form you have no access to equipment and the potion slots are removed, but using them with a key still worked.

 

So now, the character changed its playstyle again:

I will try Transformer with the character and if this fails,

I will turn the character into a riding wind mage, with riding mastery for more speed and faster regeneration on a special mount,

and if this fails, ... I am sure I find something still working.

 

2009 is the international Darwin-Year. And Sacred2 helps us to remember this by making the environment harder so that only characters which can adapt to the changes can survive. I am a cockroach and not a cheetah (writing?) which is optimized till the bitter end.

Edited September 3, 2009 by chattius

[soldats 0]

I wouldn't be going on like this if it were a new game or the next installment[s3], but they are tampering with a system that works. by handicapping characters so severely and then having the audacity to call it balancing is equivalent to breaking 3 of my 4 limbs required for swimming, then telling me it's to balance my swimming ability or as challenge.

Edited September 3, 2009 by gogoblender
comments removed

[Knuckles 904]

This may make me re-think buying Ice & Blood now. Since I play only SW's really, how am I supposed to find gear to compensate for the rune cap now in place? If the answer is make a trader then I think you miss my point. I should be self sufficient.

 

If this is a bug, then who fixes it? Are there any dev's on Deepsilver's payroll or is the expansion sold 'as is' ?

[FrostElfGuard 9]

I'm kind of surprised here. I read the posts from the players I have admired who have much much higher level characters than me... people who have looked at what there was and found powerful builds, ways to maximize the potential of the game, and I see that they're giving up. Giving up before they can see for themselves what works.

 

The devs designed S1 from the bottom up. That was why the Vampiress got an 8x damage bonus (at max) when she was transformed, fighting mobs at night or underground. That was 'balanced' off by her taking damage from sunlight. Sort of 'anti-life leech'. The devs had no idea that this idea would 'break' the Vampiress and make it so all you ever needed to read was 1 rune of Attack. With 3% life leech readily available (1/2 the Vampiress runes), socketing Attack runes was all you needed.

 

With Sacred 2, they built the game from the top down. They looked at maxed out characters. So. They looked at each classes, and balanced the game to work at level 200. Each class is supposed to have a fighting chance. No class is supposed to be more powerful than another class. (This might not be true with what I guess is the last original class the Temple Guardian--compare with the S1 melee battlemage---without weapon lores he could not get niob level damage production, so was a weak character.) Level 200 is supposed to be difficult.

 

From talking with the devs in 2007, I gathered that they basically planned S1 to be played to level 100... and then played with functional characters that were mob killers. They didn't really expect anyone to go to 200. When they did UW, that limit was raised to 206... but they expected people to play to it. They made the UW sections of the game much harder than the regular sections, yet entirely optional.

 

It looks like they did that with Sacred 2 as well: made the new areas deadly to the average Sacred 2 player.

 

In S1, in Niob, we had the problem of characters getting one-shotted by monsters in the Valley of Tears. In Sacred 2, they introduced shield blocking, and damage mitigation. The new spell resistance skill cuts down on the CAs used against players---which was how most characters lost their lives in VoT.

 

However, the balance of "oh my God, I might lose my character" has to be there for the average player or you lose interest.

 

I have every confidence in the ingenuity and skill of the niob-level players. I know people will find a way to thrive in the new environment, and sure, there will be tough times while things are worked out. But I know it is going to be very exciting!

Edited September 3, 2009 by FrostElfGuard

[Chrona 82]

@Knuckles

I've a level 124 SW -for castequip use setitems(easy from griffin and scaron->new boss) and niobrunes (+6) ->no traders need

 

trust me-> Ice and Blood= fun

[FrostElfGuard 9]

I'm going to see if I can buy a German download of Sacred 2 (via Deep Silver) and also a German dl of Sacred 2: Ice and Blood. I don't want to wait for English. I want the full game now.

Edited September 3, 2009 by FrostElfGuard

[Spunky 16]

One thing I don't understand is why they have made the Combat Arts go to level 0/1 after you read a rune over 199, why not have it stop at 200 and not ruin peoples Combat Arts if one rune to many is read by a mistake?

[Dobri 55]

I'm kind of surprised here. I read the posts from the players I have admired who have much much higher level characters than me... people who have looked at what there was and found powerful builds, ways to maximize the potential of the game, and I see that they're giving up. Giving up before they can see for themselves what works.

 

It's not giving up, friend This is simply the disgruntled roar of many players who:

 

1. Will have 60% (or more) of their builds come to nothing and lose the balance thanks to the changes. That's a lot of hours play time, simply wasted. Some players have put months of game time playing a tough char, simply to find that they either have to redo the build or have to waste even more time just to make their balance between damage, ca level and regen times work once again.

2. Like to play unorthodox, tough or even impossible builds and make them work by careful planning. That planning is gone now thanks to the changes. Such builds may still work, but they will be underpowered, which takes out some of the fun.

3. Like to play the game for fun - not to show they're better than the others, better than the game, better than the computer. Most of the fun will be gone now, since the changes will seriously harm almost all chars.

 

I, personally, like the idea for a challenge. I actually like the idea that I may lose some chars to that. 2 casualties for over 6 months of game time is a mere pittance. However, I don't like the fact that the developers are simply cutting away with the scissors good paths of advancement and seriously harming some chars - notably the less popular caster builds, like the Celestial-oriented Seraphim (thanks for the ancient magic, but no thanks - I'd rather have deathblow with it), the pure caster inquisitor, the caster TG (it was possible to make the source warden tree work to some extent, now that's gone like the wind). The HE will not suffer because her spells were overpowered for the Pyro and Mystic Stormite aspects. Coup players, however, will come to some trouble.

 

I don't like simply washing certain chars down the drain. One can still make it work, with a ton of effort, hardship and such, but what will he gain in the end? Bragging rights? Being the only one with such build? I wonder how such player feels when he's ready to throw the PC out of the window, whilst another is happily hunting with a Pyro/Ice HE, BFG seraphim, and other builds that will be overpowered no matter how nerfed they get.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Dobri

[r00ster 1]

I would just like to add;

 

Sacred 1 was not end game tested either. So no, they didn't have a clue as to what would happen with most of it.

 

And as dobri says, its not about challenge etc.

It's about the hundreds of hours, the insane amounts of time all wasted.

Every bloody patch, remake everything.

 

I seriously do love sacred, it's no secret. However, come on, give us a break.

 

 

Lastly, I would guess very highly that the cap is a bug. If it was a 'cap' they have capped BFG before, so it's not like no rollover cap is not possible.

Again, who will fix it all now?

 

It's unfortunately, just a mess. Odds are NA areas aren't even getting the expansion anyway. Split lobbies dividing the communities, etc etc etc.

 

Enough. There is sometimes reasons to defend something, and sometimes not.

 

Cheers.

[Katran 0]

As for a potential patch or fix in what ever form it could be possible they have said in many occasions that they do employ independent teams for bugs and what not. If we are lucky they may get a patch out at list we could hope.

[gogoblender 3,070]

And as dobri says, its not about challenge etc.

It's about the hundreds of hours, the insane amounts of time all wasted.

Every bloody patch, remake everything.

 

 

I respect the hundreds of hours many people have put into this game. I also very much understand how it can feel to have a perceived "achievement" changed, with the finish line being extended. And this is what has happened here.

 

Our perspective on the actions taken with the patch will decide how we feel about this add-on.

 

I have a few toons that will need complete redux, but I'm looking forward to the rebuild. Chrona has posted great information, and has lost as much if not more than most people playing the game with his many many MANY niobium level characters.

 

By this time next year, there will be great builds again, just not the same as the ones now in existence.

 

It was pointed out many times in many places that the game had been too easy, broken, conquered, call it what you will. People with builds that have been broken by the changes ( I'm included) can look at this as a way of finally getting to see the game with a much tougher edge.

 

I have posted before, I will post again, I look forward to the challenge, I'm here all the way to the end with this game. It's been constant rebuilds for me since five years ago since the original sacred was released and Underworld destroyed all our builds.

 

Most of the people in D.a.r.k clan only came about because of the huge changes to the original game with the release of Underworld... and we did fine.

 

These frustrations are a mirror of the posts from almost five years ago. There were many people then who chose to perceive as a a rebuild as "lost" time rather than future possibilities then as well. The Underworld servers went on to being far busier than pre underworld servers, and the new changes became commonplace.

 

As in Galactica, this has all happened before, and if we can find the reins, choose to find the reins there is just as much opportunity for enjoyment with the future.

 

Patience and some perspective my friends, we'll have our godly builds again. It looks like with no more devs there can't possibly be anymore patches...right?

 

And builders, those that look to an "end" rather than a journey, will finally have their trophy.

 

 

gogo

[Zonc1 0]

Gogo, we all knew the rebalancing was needed. No one argues here. It's just devs picked a terrible way to do that. "Challanging" builds have become much harder, while still ice/fire elves, BFG seras and ranged dryads do mayhem, still it's possible to achieve 100% dm mitigation. Still you can socket niobium arts to level 1 char. That was the main issue, not shopped rings which take time and hard skill points in bargaining.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Zonc1