Adding new images to SacredWiki Bestiary

[Knuckles 904]

The first couple I did took a bit then I got smart. Opened up Notepad and made a template that included all damages for "Weakest Against" and 'Damage Done". Just copied and pasted the whole thing and simply deleted the ones that didn't apply to either category on each enemy

[gogoblender 3,071]

Ah ha... Wiki Trix!

 

 

*points*

 

 

gogo

[Knuckles 904]

I'm running thru the HE Quests now to find all the unique High Enemies and I was wondering if we want to give them a different color for the enemy name on the pages. Thinking we should differentiate between normal and quest only enemies somehow.

[gogoblender 3,071]

Discerning tween the two is a good idea. We can write in what what the dif is via details within the page and even link to the specific quest they are in.

 

 

gogo

[Knuckles 904]

I'm starting to list the quests and link them for the quest enemies, but I was hoping to have something a little more prominent. My thought was to have regular enemies name/title in blue as it is now and have quest enemies another color.

 

Here's Anjaros for example. I've added the quest link but it really doesn't look any different than regular ones until you read the details. I was hoping we could add or change something to make it more obvious (so you would immediately know with just a quick look while scrolling or looking at index).

[gogoblender 3,071]

I'll go over the idea of different colors for distinguishing, and was checking over all the additions with quest looks great and detailed. There may be some other ways of pulling out the information from a different end then making different colors for headers, I'll go over some ideas for this.

 

Thanks!

 

 

gogo

[Knuckles 904]

I've already encountered 15 uniquely named High Elf Quest enemies (and 4 other type enemies) and I'm not even out of the Sloeford/Western Tyr Lysia area yet. Most are just regular type enemies with a unique name. This is just an idea but I thought I would throw it out there, what if we made separate indexes for them? We could have High Elf Enemies and High Elf Quest Enemies as separate sections in Bestiary, This way I could sort Quest enemies by Quest Name on that page. Otherwise I'm going to have enemies from the same Quest scattered alphabetically thru the index.

 

Again, just an idea and maybe I'm making this too complicated. Just let me know what ya think

[Schot 407]

Heya Knuckles. gogo rattled me chains so I whipped something up to help out. ^^

 

Colouring Page names or header names isn't an option so I improvised using the enemy Anjaros and Abbess as Guinea Pigs. Hope they don't mind. ^^ You should be able to see the changes I made knuckles. For example I added (Quest Enemy) to the Header names and I've created a simple stub for their individual pages that you can use and customize for each quest enemy you find. You just need to use the code below:

 

{{Quest Enemy|DESCRIPTION|FIRST LETTER OF THE ENEMY'S NAME}}

The first part should always stay the same. The {{Quest Enemy| part. Also, it's important that the | are there. There should always be two of them.

 

Have a look. Give it a try and let me know!

 

P.s.

The stub is a bit shabby looking, I know, but the great thing about using it is that I can apply design changes to the originating Quest Enemy stub page which will affect any and all pages where it is being used and will update them automatically.

 

P.p.s

This is where the Quest Enemy stub can be found on the wiki: Quest Enemy

[Knuckles 904]

Looks good to me

 

My only concern is that I could potentially have dozens of quest enemies, so that page could get pretty long. At the rate I'm going I wouldn't be surprised if I have 75-100 uniquely named High Elf enemies by the time I'm done doing quests in High Elf region.

[Schot 407]

Ah hmmm.... Uh.... Well... I see what you're concerned about now. Yup, that could be unpleasant to load, haha. Or even scan through for that matter.

 

Ok let's see how it goes. If it becomes too much for a single page it will be easy enough to copy paste to a new one. Oh and on that note I think it might be wise to break the page up into two sections with normal enemies at the top and then start a new alphabetical list of Quest Enemies below. We could possibly make a stub for distinguishing the division as well. Ultimately this is going to be a problem only for the High Elf and human region where most of the quests in the game are found.

 

Really amazing stuff Knuckles. Can't say it enough. You're taking the bestiary through a whole few levels of quality.

[Knuckles 904]

Thank Schot

 

I just wish these ideas would hit me all at once, so I only have to re-do each entry once

 

I'll give an example of what I see as a problem with listing quest enemies alphabetically. In the Attack on the Vegetable Vendor, I have 2 different enemies: Copperpoint Gang Member and Leader of Copperpoint Gang. If I do it alphabetically they won't be near each other. Still think we need to somehow sort them so related quest enemies are bunched together. Maybe sort top half of page by enemy and bottom half by Quest Name?

[gogoblender 3,071]

I have been doing some thinking about this... I'm still not sure I like the idea of changing the discernment from right within the grouping of bestiary listings yet.

 

What about creating a brand new page called Quest Enemy listings.

 

This new page would then have a list and links to that specific group that we were sorting for. This keeps independant pages neutral and allows them to be classified in more than one way later on without commiting them now in one specific way for grouping.

 

By grouping from directly within the bestiary it commits them to one grouping only... perhaps in future there could be other ways of grouping that folks would find intersting ^^

 

Off to work, but I'll check this when coming home.

 

 

gogo

[gogoblender 3,071]

Ah ha!

 

I just got into work right now and it `clicked`!

 

Here is how I see it now... the `bestiary`as we call it...is not a collection of hard facts...it`s just a grouping that we`ve put together. The key player in this case is this page here... the part that is calling to all the pages in the wiki and grouping them together:

 

Sacred 2 Bestiary

 

As you can see, that page there is a group of words that we have written in in boxes that act as the sorters for the pages. The pages for each enemy are relatively neutral... it is not really the data itself that distinguishes it but the way in which it is sorted or called.

 

On that page above that I gave the link to, you can see that the enemies are being sorted into categories that the game has set up and which we have used as a template...

 

Now, though...it seems like we are lookingt to sort in different ways and thereby ascribe new meaning to the enemies. And a good thing this is because this is what wiki databases excel at. Once we create neutral pages with data on it, we can have it spun, sorted or categorized in any fasion depending on how we set up the call.

 

I am thinking...instead of going directly into the enemy pages and then addingg colors or tabs which would consign them to one direction at that point how about we instead add more `sortings`to that page I pointed to above... instead of just having the ones the game gives us regarding the monster groupings...we can do some really fun and VERY useful stuff...

 

We can do the High Elf Quest Enemies grouping

All POison Damage Monster grouping

% Life leech Monster grouping

Monsters that Stun

Monsters that reflect

 

 

...etc etc...

 

See where we can go with this ? KNuckles you have actually opened up a wonderful Pandora`s box. Now because we have so much data per monster... we can now use this page :

 

Sacred 2 Bestiary

 

to now create new associations which will now create these new values like elf quest enemies etc which are being pointed out to us by you as going to be important in the wiki.

 

I think using this page is going to make the new classifications easier, cleaner, must less time consuming, and it`s funny because a few years ago I remember saying that the wiki databse is so powerful because of it`s ability to respin out all the data in it`s hallowed pages out in any grouping we want.

 

As well... it will also allow on this Main Bestiary page Index to write up snappy short descriptons of every new group that we can think of and put together... sort of like the aweome ones that Erris did on this page which are first class prose.

 

Soooooooo... how does this sound?

 

 

gogo

[Schot 407]

I've already encountered 15 uniquely named High Elf Quest enemies (and 4 other type enemies) and I'm not even out of the Sloeford/Western Tyr Lysia area yet. Most are just regular type enemies with a unique name. This is just an idea but I thought I would throw it out there, what if we made separate indexes for them? We could have High Elf Enemies and High Elf Quest Enemies as separate sections in Bestiary, This way I could sort Quest enemies by Quest Name on that page. Otherwise I'm going to have enemies from the same Quest scattered alphabetically thru the index.

 

Again, just an idea and maybe I'm making this too complicated. Just let me know what ya think

Sacred 2 Bestiary

 

...how about we instead add more `sortings`to that page I pointed to above... instead of just having the ones the game gives us regarding the monster groupings...we can do some really fun and VERY useful stuff...

 

We can do the High Elf Quest Enemies grouping

All POison Damage Monster grouping

% Life leech Monster grouping

Monsters that Stun

Monsters that reflect

 

Sounds perfect guys.

 

Thank Schot

 

I just wish these ideas would hit me all at once, so I only have to re-do each entry once

 

You and me both! But I think that comes with wiki territory sadly. ^^

 

I'll give an example of what I see as a problem with listing quest enemies alphabetically. In the Attack on the Vegetable Vendor, I have 2 different enemies: Copperpoint Gang Member and Leader of Copperpoint Gang. If I do it alphabetically they won't be near each other. Still think we need to somehow sort them so related quest enemies are bunched together. Maybe sort top half of page by enemy and bottom half by Quest Name?

 

Good question. Ummmm... gooooogoooooo!

[gogoblender 3,071]

I think a good answer that offers even more different spins on associations is by simply choosing everything you want to put in a group that we see has connections and or utility, and then adding that new group listing to the page I was pointing to ...first page of bestiary.

 

This could be a huge growth value for the wiki, we will see brand new groupings, much like what Knuckles is doing with his grouping of High Elf Quest Enemies.

 

 

 

gogo

[Knuckles 904]

Is it too late to close Pandora's Box

 

I think I understand what you want to do gogo...I'm all for it Obviously I'll need you guys to set up the parameters but otherwise I can fill out the rest. Just let me know what you want me to do.

[Knuckles 904]

I got about 40 Quest Enemies to post, about 25 of them are High Elf. Not sure if I should add them to the existing HE page or wait for the new Quest Pages to be built. Also have about 10 Humanoid Monster ones.

[gogoblender 3,071]

Breakfast work...and not even a mcmuffin yet

 

 

Okay, with brad we have put in new page. I you look at top of Bestiary first page,

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Bestiary

 

you'll see a new link to Quest Bestiary

 

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Quest_Bestiary

 

 

The new Quest bestiary page connects to pages that you can fill in with the enemies that you're finding.

 

 

Have fun knuckles!

 

gogo

 

 

 

p.s. this is quick set up... new page is copying old description If you want to change the already existing descriptions on the new page go for it, if you're busy with the pics, it's no sweat for me to write new ones myself or find someone who can match Erris's descriptive prose.

 

 

gogo

[Knuckles 904]

You don't think I'm gonna let you get that Egg McMuffin without a couple questions now do ya

 

Would you like it sorted by Quest Name or Quest Enemy Name ?

 

And if you want it sorted by Quest Name and the quest is a chain or series one-how should I label it?

 

For example Captain Bloodtongue is a 3 part series. Do I list the enemy Captain Bloodtongue under the series name or the individual quest he appears in (Bloodmouth Must Die)

 

Now you can have your McMuffin (hurry before I think of more questions-cuz you know I'll have some )

[Knuckles 904]

If you wanted a couple existing files to work with you could use the Corrupt Priest and Anjaros (both HE enemies). Both are from the quest Purification of the Temple.

[gogoblender 3,071]

Quest Enemy name please, this way bestiary will be great list of just the enemies... later on if any of us have time, we can copy in these new quest enemy names into their quest page.

 

What this does is... if someone wants to peruse all the different quest enemies...he goes to the bestiary

 

If someone wants to see which enemies are grouped together for a specific quest, they just go to the quest page itself and can see all the npc's and enemies they will meet.

 

And, if you ever meet a quest enemy that has the exact same name as a regular enemy, what you can do is tack on the suffix quest enemy

 

Example:

 

• Orc King
  
• Orc King Quest Enemy
  

 

 

 

Egg mcmuffin here we come!

 

 

 

 

gogo

[Knuckles 904]

And, if you ever meet a quest enemy that has the exact same name as a regular enemy, what you can do is tack on the suffix quest enemy

 

Might have to show me how exactly you want to display these.

 

Quest: Brigand Camp

Enemies: Brigands, Highwaymen, Assassins

 

This has an assortment of regular and quest only enemies. Brigands are regular enemies but Highwaymen and Assassins seem to be quest only. But I've seen both of them in 2 different quests so far. This might be the only aberration I run in to so I won't worry about it for now.

 

I'll start building the HE Quest Enemy page and let you look it over and see what, if anything, I need to change.

 

 

 

 

[Knuckles 904]

I've moved over the existing HE Quest enemies and provided links to them on the actual Quest pages. Enemies like Brigands which can be regular enemies or quest enemies I've just linked the appropriate entries in the quest page to the normal Bestiary page. Don't think I need to make a separate entry for these type enemies in the Quest Bestiary.

 

Think I'll re-do the syntax for enemy locations in regular Bestiary to match they way I've done on Quest enemy pages - more in-line with the other enemy info we have there now.

[gogoblender 3,071]

I've been following your work this morning, you are setting up new section so quickly. I was putting in a few links in the quests section to help out with the new entries but you have been putting in content so quickly with even links to new quest pages...

 

Beautiful!

 

 

gogo

[Knuckles 904]

I've been following your work this morning, you are setting up new section so quickly. I was putting in a few links in the quests section to help out with the new entries but you have been putting in content so quickly with even links to new quest pages...

 

Beautiful!

 

 

gogo

 

Ah that would explain why I got a weird statement while linking enemies on one quest page Said something about another change being made at same time.

 

Got the easy part done, now time to enter all the new enemies