Jump to content


Photo

ReSpec in UnBended - Yay or Nay?


  • Please log in to reply
97 replies to this topic

#1 gogoblender

gogoblender

    Dark Sun Guardian

  • Administrator
  • 32,225 posts
  • Location:Montreal,Quebec, Canada
  • Real Name:Rommel
  • Platform:PC

Posted 04 August 2014 - 08:46 AM

this from their faq:

How does it look for a possibility to re-skill? Planned, rejected, open?

Definitely rejected

 

I like the tone and have never been a big fan of the style of gaming that reskilling offers, though I do see it's merits...just that for this game, I kinda want the journeying that permanent decisions affords.

You guys?

 

:)

 

gogo

 



#2 chattius

chattius

    Sacred 2 Site Guru

  • Moderator
  • 3,979 posts
  • Platform:PC

Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:01 AM

I don't like reskilling. Be it Diablo or Sacred, turning a wrongly skilled character into something playable by trying out of mainstream ideas is often more fun.

I played a polearm highelf in sacred2 when everyone said you can't do it. But it was close to my Lance-amazon first days in Diablo2 when I heard same. The easy way would have been to reskill. The fun and learning the game way is most often to keep the character and find a way to make it useful.

I hope UnBended has enough armour modifies, CA-modifiers, ... to make reskilling unnecessary in most of the cases. Like my jumping barbarian in Diablo2 who turned out really funny when wearing equipment which triggered spells when hitting your opponent.


Dieses Lied ist für einen guten Kumpel der seinen letzten Kampf gegen seine Krankheit verloren hat:
Über den Wolken

This song is for a good friend from my aero-club who lost his final battle against cancer.

#3 SX255

SX255

    Prince of Helium

  • Sacred Wiki Member
  • 853 posts
  • Platform:PC

Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:04 AM

I'm OK with this.

If anything, there are always savegame editors


Silly message nr353 - We don't have bugs, we have dragons!

#4 Bolaum

Bolaum

    Indium Shaman

  • Members
  • 15 posts
  • Real Name:Unnamed
  • Platform:PC

Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:06 AM

Hmm I can see the advantages of both, ReSkilling makes the game less frustrating for some players and No ReSkilling increases the replayability of the game.

 

How about a way of ReSkilling but requires a lot of grind or is extremly hard to do? Or a once per character ReSkill that doesn't reset ALL skills?



#5 Gilberticus

Gilberticus

    Spectral Mercenary

  • Members
  • 524 posts
  • Platform:PC

Posted 04 August 2014 - 09:11 AM

I never really thought about the ability to re-skill. I'm one of those players that has to have a character for every skill, special weapon, and unique armor that the game has to offer. Mostly, it's because I'm a nut about armor and weapons, but also it gives me a sense of completion. When I move a game into my "retired" bin, I'm confidant that I've milked every drop of fun out of it, seen everything the  game has to offer, held every weapon, played with every skill. On top of that, I've never picked up a skill that I've found so despicable that I wanted to either re-skill or delete the character. Every skill in my eyes has merit, it might not make my character so OP that I can play it one eye closed and one hand holding a beer, but I sometimes like playing under-powered characters. Sometimes it's fun to play a character who can wipe the floor with everything on-screen without a thought, but sometimes it's fun to play a character who's got to plan and be a little cautious, too



#6 Ryanrocker

Ryanrocker

    Cobalt Warrior

  • Fellowship
  • 2,038 posts
  • Location:Connecticut, USA
  • Real Name:Ryan
  • Platform:PC
  • Steam Name:Glacierbolt

Posted 04 August 2014 - 12:17 PM

I love the idea of not reskilling because it lessens the presence of a 'meta' on the game's community.  When players are allowed to switch their skills easily, many will simply go for the flavor of the month or the most overpowered build that's available.  Also, I think having permanent choices makes the connection you have with that character stronger. Your fire mage who has trained for hundreds of hours shouldn't be able to wake up the next morning and go okay, now I'm a frost mage. I vote yay for the Unbended system :)



  Check out my Unbended Content!       Or the Unbended Subreddit!

        http://www.youtube.c...ser/Glacierbolt                    http://www.reddit.com/r/unbended 


#7 Knuckles

Knuckles

    Grand Poobah

  • Site Moderator
  • 6,283 posts
  • Location:Cape Cod Mass. USA
  • Real Name:Robb
  • Platform:PC
  • Steam Name:Knuckles (Robb)

Posted 04 August 2014 - 04:58 PM

I don't like re-skilling for this one reason....

 

It absolutely kills re-play

 

Take D3 for example....I don't need a lightning monk and a fire monk and a cold monk because all I have to do is switch runes...not even any points to assign...build diversity is null and void....I built a max Mongoose Dark Elf in Sacred 2 just because I wanted to see how far I could jump...and it was a looooong way lol....Sacred 2 encouraged build diversity via runes and equipment...in D3, oh you found a Cindercoat or Thunder Fury? Just change runes and away you go. There is no need to specialize your characters

 

I made some truly horrible builds in Sacred 2 just to see what would happen....re-skilling really removes any initiative to be creative and unique since you can always un-do everything.



#8 Flix

Flix

    Modimus Prime

  • FDM Moderator
  • 3,146 posts
  • Platform:PC

Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:15 PM

I'll play devil's advocate.  Not because I disagree with making permanent decisions, but I don't click with people's reasons so far.

 

I would argue that re-skilling can boost experimentation and creative builds.  Furthermore, I'd argue that not having re-skilling encourages following cookie cutter builds.  The reason being that with re-skilling you won't feel punished by the game for accidentally making a bad or "broken" build.  So see how far using that one weird spell will get you.  How many fearful new players come onto game forums (like this one) worried sick to death about making a broken character?  In a game with no re-skill, people who really care about making a working character end up planning and planning and feeling they have to have everything they're going to do with this character written down and charted before they even start (some people like that of course).   I actually think not having re-skilling encourages meta-gaming in a way that re-skills does not.  Because you have the freedom to just play the game, instead of min-maxing.

 

Of course, you can just play a game like Sacred without any forethought as well.  And you will be punished.  And I happen to like that. 


Edited by Flix, 04 August 2014 - 05:16 PM.

  Diablo 2 Fallen Mod         Sacred 2 Enhanced Spells Mod          Flix's Music Mod for Sacred 2
   Elite Mounts Mod              Sacred 2 Character Editor           List of Mods and Modding Guides

    Sacred 2 Nexus                    Sacred 2 Nude Mod                     Community Items Mod


#9 Ysne58

Ysne58

    Mister Einsteinium

  • Sacred Wiki Member
  • 1,938 posts
  • Real Name:Cathleen Anderson

Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:29 PM

I've always had mixed feelings about being able to redo skills.  I suffer from chronic restartitis-mulitple characters though too.



#10 Knuckles

Knuckles

    Grand Poobah

  • Site Moderator
  • 6,283 posts
  • Location:Cape Cod Mass. USA
  • Real Name:Robb
  • Platform:PC
  • Steam Name:Knuckles (Robb)

Posted 04 August 2014 - 05:43 PM

Been thinking on this more and maybe I'm thinking of this in the wrong context....Ysne really clued me in with chronic restartitis-mulitple characters

 

I too was afflicted with this in both Sacred's but never D3. Sometimes it's the journey and not the end that brings us pleasure. I didn't mind building a character that was flawed and I couldn't fix easily...it became a challenge to me.. Sometimes there was just no saving it or I thought of a better way to do certain aspect and thus the journey would start  again from the beginning.

 

I restarted sooooo many times I lost count. But only got 1 character in both S1 and Sacred 2 to max level. I enjoyed tinkering with builds and starting over. But with re-skilling I no longer have to start over and can 'fix' my character within minutes and I'm just that much closer to the end game. No need to restart, no need to make another character.

 

But I think for me the journey was the more important part of the game, the destination never mattered :D



#11 colif

colif

    Spectral Mercenary

  • Members
  • 554 posts
  • Real Name:Greg
  • Platform:PC
  • PSN ID:Colif

Posted 05 August 2014 - 02:07 AM

FF14 lets you have every class on one character, this kills the need to even play game again if you can be it all. Diablo 3 has no real spec at all, you can take it all -  I still played two of same class cause I enjoy levelling up, since there is no real end game besides grinding gear.

Games with respec are built for people who don't want to spend years playing the one game, and just want something fun to play for a month. I remember just after Diablo 3's release the devs actually said they didn't want people playing it for years... but but, that is why I wanted to play it... no idea.

I think most of the good arguments have already been taken above. I don't mind having no respec as it means you have to be careful with what you choose, you can't easily fix taking the wrong skill. Its all a learning curve, if you choose wrong your next character will know better.


Edited by colif, 05 August 2014 - 02:10 AM.


#12 Aegis

Aegis

    Prince of Helium

  • Members
  • 888 posts
  • Location:Toronto
  • Platform:PS3
  • PSN ID:FauxKarma

Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:06 AM

Don't really mind.  Gotten used to no re-skilling from playing Sacred alone, and have rolled with the consequences of my choices.  Not that I don't understand the reasoning behind respecs, but I also don't mind building multiple characters, either.


T3h 4rT15t 1z k1uk1n 8uTZ!11!1oneone

#13 Yoshio

Yoshio

    Radon Master

  • Members
  • 133 posts
  • Real Name:Johannes
  • Platform:PC

Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:14 AM

I'm a bit bias about this. On one hand, if one takes the R in ARPG it would mean that one plays a role and this role needs decissions and decissions in life are fix and cannot be redone. But on the other hand for those who want to experiement with builts I can definitively see the benefit of reskilling and I guess this is one reason why we do see all those unskilled characters here in Sacred!?

A possible solution for me would be a similar one to the one of Hardcore and Softcore. If one wants to reskill ones character, this decission should be made already at the beginning of the game like setting Hardcore or Softcore another setting for Reskilling or permanent Skilling could be implemented. What would others think of this option!?



#14 chattius

chattius

    Sacred 2 Site Guru

  • Moderator
  • 3,979 posts
  • Platform:PC

Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:35 AM

Best for most people is probably something in between:

If you reach perhaps 10 skills. Everytime you get a new skill you can change one of the last 2 chosen skills for something else. If you reach 6 skills you could change skill 4 or 5 for something else. When you reach 7th skill you could change skill 5 or 6.

A bit more roleplay: the older you get the harder to change old behaviour :) But you could try out a new skill and keep it or reject after a while. But you won't turn a sniper dwarf into a priest easily because you notice that priests would be overpowered currently.


Dieses Lied ist für einen guten Kumpel der seinen letzten Kampf gegen seine Krankheit verloren hat:
Über den Wolken

This song is for a good friend from my aero-club who lost his final battle against cancer.

#15 Knuckles

Knuckles

    Grand Poobah

  • Site Moderator
  • 6,283 posts
  • Location:Cape Cod Mass. USA
  • Real Name:Robb
  • Platform:PC
  • Steam Name:Knuckles (Robb)

Posted 05 August 2014 - 05:00 AM

Maybe we could have the best of both worlds? Like Sacred ?

While Sacred  did not have respec, if you played on the closed servers, you could always export your character to Open to test things. So while your skill selections were permanent in Closed you did have a way to experiment before committing points



#16 Rotluchs

Rotluchs

    Prismatic Enchanter

  • Supporting Member
  • 639 posts
  • Location:World of Uld
  • Real Name:James
  • Platform:PC

Posted 05 August 2014 - 07:11 AM

I'd say neither YAY nor NAY ..

I like both Sacred 1 and Diablo 3 ,

although I spent far more time with Sacred,

had about 18 or 19 characters @ level 216 in underworld.. (not counting those I deleted)

If a game has instant respec/reskill like Diablo 3 it needs proper end-game content for max level chars, which it has (sort of)

that's perhaps why both systems can work.

 

Even a mix is possible: Mythos for instance had respec, but only for low to mid level chars, and each respec got more expensive each time.

Grim Dawn has limited respec too, you can respec single skills, but not all stats, and it gets more expensive each time too

 

for unbended, I would have to know what the skill & combat art system is going to be like..

 

If it is like in Sacred, there will be no real skill tree wich means you can read a few runes and try out all spells anyway, then concentrate on something you like, plus exporting you char to open/SP like Knuckles mentioned..

personally, in Sacred I didn't miss respec cause you could even make use of broken chars as a mule, or a trader, etc..

rerolling a new char was fun, and didnt take too long either.

 

so, in unbended I won't miss respec either I guess, if the rest of the game is built around it in a way to compensate for that missing feature.

 

there's pro's and con's, somehow I'm glad the devs are going to decide and not me, because I like both options :P


Edited by Rotluchs, 05 August 2014 - 07:15 AM.

Diablo 3 EU SC: Bobcat#2602


#17 SevPOOTS

SevPOOTS

    Radon Master

  • Members
  • 178 posts
  • Location:Philippines
  • Real Name:Sev
  • Platform:PC

Posted 05 August 2014 - 04:01 PM

Torchlight has this respec potion and It made the game boring because you could try every skill there is at ONE time.

I remembered the Time in Sacred UW I Created:

FISTs-seraphim

BOW-seraphim

-Spear-seraphim

-PureBFGSera

-PureEnergyBoltSera

-TheHunterSeekerSera

 

etc.

Never got bored :)


sacred-2-permanent-hair-color-mod-seraph

Want to Download? Search "Sacred 2 Permanent Hair color tutorial" in google xD


#18 colif

colif

    Spectral Mercenary

  • Members
  • 554 posts
  • Real Name:Greg
  • Platform:PC
  • PSN ID:Colif

Posted 07 August 2014 - 04:56 PM

I think I tried every type of Shadow Warrior (triple buff was fun but under powered) so a respec option would have reduced the number of level 100's I now have. Plus side to playing them all is the number of set parts/uniques I have stashed away for the future, and well, game was fun :)



#19 gogoblender

gogoblender

    Dark Sun Guardian

  • Administrator
  • 32,225 posts
  • Location:Montreal,Quebec, Canada
  • Real Name:Rommel
  • Platform:PC

Posted 07 August 2014 - 08:47 PM

Reading all the posts here and getting some good ideas. I was kinda all or none before...but now after seeing all the points of view, and how respec has been handled in other games, I kinda get the feeling that they could have a lot of fun with this.
Like what if we are only allowed one or two or three during the entire life cycle...wouldn't this just add value to the game, kind of like saving a super power until it's really important to use it, but still having that super power if we need it?

:superman:

gogo

#20 Yoshio

Yoshio

    Radon Master

  • Members
  • 133 posts
  • Real Name:Johannes
  • Platform:PC

Posted 08 August 2014 - 02:28 AM

Aye for sure it would be something to think about! Especially when I do think back at the time when someone found out that 'Mystic Storm Lore' is of greater benefit to cristall skin than 'Mystic Storm Focus'. At that time my High Elf had been already very high level but as I always want to have the absolute best, I needed to start a new one. This, obviously, set me off a little because of the spent time with the other one and at that moment I had wished that there would be a reskill option at least for swapping this one skill.

So, yes, being able to swap, to reskill even just one or two could be interesting!






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users